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Thread: Crown Vics

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    Senior Member slodrew's Avatar
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    Default Crown Vics

    My ideas on the Crown Vics:

    First of all let me just say that I don't always do the best job of explaining myself with written text and I haven't spent a whole lot of time thinking all of this through. That, and I don't really have any experience with organizing track days or any of that type of thing and I'm not sure what the best approach would be to doing something like this, but here goes.
    The Crown Vic Police Interceptors have heavy duty cooling systems, braking systems, and they were designed and certified for high speed pursuit. These cars can now be bought at auctions all over the country for very cheap for anywhere from a couple hundred dollars to several thousand dollars depending on the condition and mileage. Any of them that list the condition as "ready" in the vehicle description at the auction are just that, "ready". As in ready to go out on patrol or in our case, ready for the track.
    For competition's sake and to keep things as cheap as possible the best thing would be to leave the cars alone and not modify them at all. To insure that the participating members did just that something could be done like reverse grid for the second race but not only reverse the lineup, put the fastest guy in the slowest car.
    Or maybe collective ownership of a fleet through some private club or something like that? That way the cars/drivers could be selected by a lottery system or something like that for the first race as well.. Maybe somebody has the cash to buy a fleet and make it an arrive and drive event lol!
    Anybody have any interest or ideas about doing something like this?

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    Senior Member Johnny_Se7en's Avatar
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    There's a place on La Palma in Anaheim that has a lot full of these cheap.
    If nothing happens and there is no one around why did it not happen?

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Why?
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Why?
    Isnt it obvious?

    Spec panther racing.

    I would so be in.

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    Senior Member 48yota's Avatar
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    If you can arrange enough of them for a run group, AROSC can accommodate the group for you at our events.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slodrew View Post
    My ideas on the Crown Vics:

    First of all let me just say that I don't always do the best job of explaining myself with written text and I haven't spent a whole lot of time thinking all of this through. That, and I don't really have any experience with organizing track days or any of that type of thing and I'm not sure what the best approach would be to doing something like this, but here goes.
    The Crown Vic Police Interceptors have heavy duty cooling systems, braking systems, and they were designed and certified for high speed pursuit. These cars can now be bought at auctions all over the country for very cheap for anywhere from a couple hundred dollars to several thousand dollars depending on the condition and mileage. Any of them that list the condition as "ready" in the vehicle description at the auction are just that, "ready". As in ready to go out on patrol or in our case, ready for the track.
    For competition's sake and to keep things as cheap as possible the best thing would be to leave the cars alone and not modify them at all. To insure that the participating members did just that something could be done like reverse grid for the second race but not only reverse the lineup, put the fastest guy in the slowest car.
    Or maybe collective ownership of a fleet through some private club or something like that? That way the cars/drivers could be selected by a lottery system or something like that for the first race as well.. Maybe somebody has the cash to buy a fleet and make it an arrive and drive event lol!
    Anybody have any interest or ideas about doing something like this?
    I think the ONLY thing missing- a 5-speed. I do like rowing my gears! Don't how much they cost, but maybe an "upgrade limit" so one may add manual, anti-roll bars, etc?
    Last edited by 2GRX7; 10-29-2015 at 01:52 PM.

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    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    I would buy and cage one but I have no place to put it. I would not be happy paying $70/mo storage for a $300 car. That is just wrong. But hey I would race specVIC.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    I have to think the brakes would not survive road course use without some serious upgrades. Pursuit spec on rock hard cop car tires vs repeated max g decelerations with sticky tires. Also wonder about oil and coolant temps. Come to think of it, automatics?
    The donor cars might cost $500 but a Miata donor in roughly equal shape costs about $1500 and won't require as many upgrades to stay together on track. I guess I just have a hard time justifying what is going to be a $1500-2500 cage for such a cheap, slow car.

    If these are available for rent, it is assured to become more of a crash fest than Spec Miata. Having once had the occasion to fling a mildly prepped former cop car around a closed course, I recall it was quite difficult to drive with any precision and comically slow to change direction. This and a "what the heck!" driving attitude will mean a crash fest. Not precision close racing. Sounds like fun if someone else is paying for the car.

    Not trying to blast the concept, just sharing my reactions as a club racer who pays close attention to fun/dollar ratio.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    Member wagnerov's Avatar
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    Crown Vics and Chevy Caprices (not sure if they are PPV's) of a similar vintage pop up in Lemons "races" often. Spec Vic is a wonderful idea, however, Lemons is where they belong...

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    Senior Member slodrew's Avatar
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    if they were run auction stock on the Goodyear RS-A's (which ride like crap but work surprisingly well and seem to last forever) part of the strategy of racing would be car preservation. As far as caging goes, you can never be too safe but front and side impact airbags and the feakin' roof skins are like 14 gauge or some crazy thing.. the B pillars are beefy to support light bars and all that.. maybe the prisoner partitions could be left in? lol! Brakes? Burgoon was impressed at big willow after 10 laps and the pads that were on the car are not near as good as the Bendix POLICE brake pads (>$50 for front and the rears are cheaper) that I ran at Buttonwillow in September. They have factory installed oil coolers that are integral with the lower radiator hose and had optional blue silicone coolant hoses that seem indestructible.. way more burly than any black radiator hose I have ever seen..

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    I had a chance to talk with slodrew at buttonwillow back in Setpember and his car seemed to respond pretty well to mild mods and MASSIVE tires (needs less interior). Haven't driven it in anger so couldn't say how well it changes direction etc but it seems to be a concept with some promise. Ive raced Lemons alongside some real ****box vics and some that were disturbingly fast and well driven, but I gotta say small cars are quick but its always more fun to make the fat girl dance.

    One of my cohorts and I had been talking for years about building a Vic for one lap of America. That idea usually gets lost in the project ADD or vetoed by the congress of wives.

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slodrew View Post
    if they were run auction stock on the Goodyear RS-A's (which ride like crap but work surprisingly well and seem to last forever) part of the strategy of racing would be car preservation. As far as caging goes, you can never be too safe but front and side impact airbags and the feakin' roof skins are like 14 gauge or some crazy thing.. the B pillars are beefy to support light bars and all that.. maybe the prisoner partitions could be left in? lol! Brakes? Burgoon was impressed at big willow after 10 laps and the pads that were on the car are not near as good as the Bendix POLICE brake pads (>$50 for front and the rears are cheaper) that I ran at Buttonwillow in September. They have factory installed oil coolers that are integral with the lower radiator hose and had optional blue silicone coolant hoses that seem indestructible.. way more burly than any black radiator hose I have ever seen..
    I was impressed that there wasn't total catastrophic brake failure in the session I drove. That's a far cry from being impressed with the brakes! Also, WSIR is the easy track for brakes.

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    Senior Member slodrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    I was impressed that there wasn't total catastrophic brake failure in the session I drove. That's a far cry from being impressed with the brakes! Also, WSIR is the easy track for brakes.
    I stand corrected... the pads I had on it were a little better than the Hawk HPS... I'm going to go ahead and order some Carbotech XP12's and see how they work. How much difference do they make on a Miata or S2k?

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    Go to forums.24hoursoflemons.com/ and ask about race experience. There's a good amount of Panther experience there. Not necessarily all ex-police vehicles though.

    Our team got done recently on the build for our new LeMon, a 1985 Merkur XR4Ti. Our guiding principle on the cage build - how would you feel about a particular cage decision immediately prior to a T-bone from a Crown Vic.
    Last edited by billybobster; 10-29-2015 at 09:22 PM.
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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slodrew View Post
    I stand corrected... the pads I had on it were a little better than the Hawk HPS... I'm going to go ahead and order some Carbotech XP12's and see how they work. How much difference do they make on a Miata or S2k?
    Don't do XP12s. They are expensive, wear fast and dust like crazy.

    If you want race pads get Hawk DTC-70s for the front and 60s for rear. Another good alternative are Raybestos ST45 or 47s for the front and 43s in the rear.
    anorexicpoodle likes this.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

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    Senior Member slodrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    Don't do XP12s. They are expensive, wear fast and dust like crazy.

    If you want race pads get Hawk DTC-70s for the front and 60s for rear. Another good alternative are Raybestos ST45 or 47s for the front and 43s in the rear.
    Hawk only lists the HPS for the crown vic, Performance Friction doesn't offer them in any of the compounds Billy recommended, and I'm not finding any from Raybestos that you are recommending. Maybe there is a better choice from Carbotech? They are the only ones that have part numbers for all of their compounds for the crown vics..

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    Quote Originally Posted by slodrew View Post
    Hawk only lists the HPS for the crown vic, Performance Friction doesn't offer them in any of the compounds Billy recommended, and I'm not finding any from Raybestos that you are recommending. Maybe there is a better choice from Carbotech? They are the only ones that have part numbers for all of their compounds for the crown vics..
    Call porterfield brakes and tell them what compound you want and they will put it on the right pad shape for you. Price is completely reasonable.

    Ive been running ST-43's on my S2000 for years now and love them.

    I would also recommend avoiding the carbotechs. The price/wear ratio doesn't seem to stand up to the competition.

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    Senior Member slodrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anorexicpoodle View Post
    Call porterfield brakes and tell them what compound you want and they will put it on the right pad shape for you. Price is completely reasonable.

    Ive been running ST-43's on my S2000 for years now and love them.

    I would also recommend avoiding the carbotechs. The price/wear ratio doesn't seem to stand up to the competition.
    Thanks! I'll do that. It looks like they would be the right people to get brake lines from also.

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    This is probably a bad idea on a number of levels, but it might be worth considering an incremental approach to "test the waters".

    1. Group purchase of one car only with subsequent buy-ins allowed.
    2. Garage it at or near the track.
    3.. Thereafter, members drive it for a nominal lap fee to offset maintenance and storage costs.
    4. A small fine for any offs to instill a minimal level of sanity.
    5. Keep a performance log for TrackHq's version of "the reasonably priced sedan."
    6. Consider an annual "police challenge" (that could be of interest to local t.v. news).
    7. Annual trophies (crowns, of course) for fastest lap and most improved.
    Last edited by Loose Caboose; 10-30-2015 at 05:20 PM.
    Olitho, SteveLevin, 2GRX7 and 1 others like this.

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    Now that sounds kinda fun.

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