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Thread: Crash footage from Streets Of Willow sunday. Cartwheeling off the back straight

  1. #141
    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSS138 View Post
    This is a total lie.
    How so?

    Here is the link of extreme speed competitions.Anyone can enter no experience necessary.

    Competitions - Extreme Speed Track Events

    How many of the cars that crashed were entered in one of these competitions?
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  2. #142
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSS138 View Post
    This is a total lie.
    So is this.
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  3. #143
    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSS138 View Post
    I say it's a lie because it's not true. Anyone else here getting trophies from track days?
    I've received 3 or 4 trophies from integrated track day/competition events. The competition was open to anyone meeting vehicle requirements. There was no experience requirements.
    EDIT: Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure the first trophy I ever won was from an Extreme Speed TT for MR2s only. It had less than 5 track days experience.

    Also, please be mindful that the difference between a lie and ignorance is the knowledge or the lack thereof of the person making the utterance. Not all untrue statements are lies.

    Case in-point: you're wrong to state that everything Silversprint said is not true. Several have testified that they received trophies at track days. Does this make you a liar, or just wrong?
    Last edited by SDSUsnowboards; 05-19-2014 at 10:14 AM.
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  4. #144
    I wanna go fast! thepass's Avatar
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    Indeed the only difference between going 'round the track just for giggles vs. being in a competitive timed event is whether you fill out the form during registration to enter one of the TT competitions. Not only are plastic trophies handed out, there are prizes with monetary value. For example, I took home over $800 worth of vouchers for custom suspension work from a sponsor of the miata challenge series over the course of last season (this is not an Extreme Speed series, just using this for an example). So yes, GSS138, people are winning things from these events.

    In most cases there is no additional fee, no increase in safety equipment requirements and no experience requirement. You're not doing anything different from what you'd be doing at the HPDE anyways, but it does introduce a more competitive mindset. But, for a clear headed individual, that shouldn't reduce the driver's use of proper on-track etiquette and safety.

    I know the Miata Challenge has recently introduced rules to require certain safety requirements above and beyond the organizer's minimums for the faster classes, and I'm happy to see this.

    -Ryan
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  5. #145
    Senior Member 48yota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    Indeed the only difference between going 'round the track just for giggles vs. being in a competitive timed event is whether you fill out the form during registration to enter one of the TT competitions. Not only are plastic trophies handed out, there are prizes with monetary value. For example, I took home over $800 worth of vouchers for custom suspension work from a sponsor of the miata challenge series over the course of last season (this is not an Extreme Speed series, just using this for an example). So yes, GSS138, people are winning things from these events.

    In most cases there is no additional fee, no increase in safety equipment requirements and no experience requirement. You're not doing anything different from what you'd be doing at the HPDE anyways, but it does introduce a more competitive mindset. But, for a clear headed individual, that shouldn't reduce the driver's use of proper on-track etiquette and safety.

    I know the Miata Challenge has recently introduced rules to require certain safety requirements above and beyond the organizer's minimums for the faster classes, and I'm happy to see this.

    -Ryan
    I'm glad to see more safety being put forth from other clubs. I can say we have probably lost folks with Alfa due to these requirements. In the w2w all cars are required 5pt harness, 6pt cage, nomex suit, gloves, SA rated helmet from at min one generation prior. Our open passing group requires a 5pt harness. Everyone in every TT group requires long pants, long sleeves, gloves, SA rated helmet of at least one generation prior, the clothes of course are non synthetic. I don't like shrink wrap for skin.

    This is all on our tech form and as a club we reserve the right to check anyone at any time and we have removed people for not following the rules. Some may not care but if we can prevent stupid from happening we do.

    We do all this for two things, bragging rights and a $5.97 medallion, wouldn't this be considered a competition? Not everyone wants to be timed, those that do either have a transponder or rent one during reg, those are our suspects that we mainly focus on during the event.

  6. #146
    I wanna go fast! thepass's Avatar
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    I don't have any actual statistics on this but from what I've seen, I'd wager that the number of cars on track at most SoCal track days who do not have transponders to log times and try to better those times are very few. Most events I've been to nearly everyone rents/owns a transponder. This may be different for some of the other organizations I haven't run with, I don't know.
    -Ryan
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  7. #147
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    I don't have any actual statistics on this but from what I've seen, I'd wager that the number of cars on track at most SoCal track days who do not have transponders to log times and try to better those times are very few. Most events I've been to nearly everyone rents/owns a transponder. This may be different for some of the other organizations I haven't run with, I don't know.
    -Ryan
    Also the availability of Harrys Lap Timer/Trackmaster type applications skew the situation as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    I've received 3 or 4 trophies from integrated track day/competition events. The competition was open to anyone meeting vehicle requirements. There was no experience requirements.
    EDIT: Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure the first trophy I ever won was from an Extreme Speed TT for MR2s only. It had less than 5 track days experience.

    Also, please be mindful that the difference between a lie and ignorance is the knowledge or the lack thereof of the person making the utterance. Not all untrue statements are lies.

    Case in-point: you're wrong to state that everything Silversprint said is not true. Several have testified that they received trophies at track days. Does this make you a liar, or just wrong?

    Fair enough. And yes I am playing a bit of devil's advocate. Lie was not a correct word and I apologize. But no one forces you to join any of those competitions. I have run in the Nissan competition and have won awards in it myself. But, I chose to do so. I don't have to, and it is not necessarily a integral part of doing an XS speed event. I guess that's my point. Should it be an option?

    I would lean towards yes. A little bit of competition is an OK thing imo. I know I am personally kinda slow atm, but it's more of a self discipline thing, plus my car is not a 4K dollar POS and I am still making payments on it lol!

    All in all though, I like the idea of having some sort of central registry. Something that could take my times from XS, SV, PDS, whomever and upload them. That way when I went to a different group they would have some background on me-and most importantly the dude next to me.

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    Captain Planet tq3z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSS138 View Post
    That way when I went to a different group they would have some background on me-and most importantly the dude next to me.
    In all my years of tracking I've learned the dude next to you is 100% always a douchebag and must be beaten at all costs.
    Do you understand?

  10. #150
    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSS138 View Post
    Fair enough. And yes I am playing a bit of devil's advocate. Lie was not a correct word and I apologize. But no one forces you to join any of those competitions. I have run in the Nissan competition and have won awards in it myself. But, I chose to do so. I don't have to, and it is not necessarily a integral part of doing an XS speed event. I guess that's my point. Should it be an option?

    I would lean towards yes. A little bit of competition is an OK thing imo. I know I am personally kinda slow atm, but it's more of a self discipline thing, plus my car is not a 4K dollar POS and I am still making payments on it lol!

    All in all though, I like the idea of having some sort of central registry. Something that could take my times from XS, SV, PDS, whomever and upload them. That way when I went to a different group they would have some background on me-and most importantly the dude next to me.
    I'm with you. I'm all about personal responsibility. But, it does make sense that the presence of a competitive atmosphere may make unprepared drivers more willing to drive beyond their comfort zone in a quest for fame and glory. I'm not saying ban it. But it's something for an organizer --and other drivers considering this organizer -- to be mindful of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tq3z View Post
    In all my years of tracking I've learned the dude next to you is 100% always a douchebag and must be beaten at all costs.
    Now that is sig worthy.

  12. #152
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    I am new from the East Coast and the club format - both XS and SV scare me for various reasons. I am not sure what to expect though - private hosts want to maximize revenue so you get lots of cars and no rules. Any other outcome seems unlikely. Club racing is the logical answer these issues, as it gives racers the levers to kick out bad apples.

    It does not seem like there is much in terms of "club racing" in SoCal unless going W2W so no other options for me. The competitions at lapping days are a bit weird too,as others have said, given they seem to incentivize more drivers to "drive for a time" yet at least in the case of Corvette land are not really competitive.
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  13. #153
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fe4 View Post
    I am new from the East Coast and the club format - both XS and SV scare me for various reasons. I am not sure what to expect though - private hosts want to maximize revenue so you get lots of cars and no rules. Any other outcome seems unlikely.
    Fear not. Get on track. These are man bite dog stories which is why we have the air play here many pages long. It is a semi-rare train wreck and we all want to talk about it. The vast majority of trackdays are not life threatening. Besides you determine the outcome 99% of the time. Even in club racing SCCA, which is considered pretty aggressive with some guys wanting to become pros, you decide whether you want to challenge a guy for position and how much risk you want to take. You decide what you want out of club racing or tracking and be a man stick to your guns. Don't let others goad you into getting over your head. Redmist effect everyone at some time or another but honestly if you can't control yourself this sport is not for you. I say get out there and enjoy the sport at your level of participation. Drive aware, know your flags, know the clubs rules of the road and you will be fine. We have a great westcoast community and most will bend over backwards to help you stay on track. If you are driving a vette the SV corvette challenge crew are really nice guys and if you join us racing vettes in SCCA I guarantee a good time and much friendship.
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    The East Coast track drivers and event organizers think we are hot dogs in California. They are right. That's the way I like it.
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    fe4
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Fear not.
    Don't get me wrong, I have been driving and doing SV CC - going to all the Cali tracks is an objective. Compared to Emilio's thread somewhere else it is not hard to deal with other cars when you have a huge engine and can cruise by people that you don't appreciate.

    And don't worry, I can be hypocritical - I was put in the top group at XS for my 3rd session at Big Willow (without asking). If they had held me up and kept me in some slow group I would have been looking for someone else that would let me drive without terrible traffic. As evidence of the problems with that I tried to kill Moti on my next day there because I had no idea how 100hp cars go through T5/T6.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by fe4 View Post
    I am new from the East Coast and the club format - both XS and SV scare me for various reasons. I am not sure what to expect though - private hosts want to maximize revenue so you get lots of cars and no rules. Any other outcome seems unlikely. Club racing is the logical answer these issues, as it gives racers the levers to kick out bad apples.

    It does not seem like there is much in terms of "club racing" in SoCal unless going W2W so no other options for me. The competitions at lapping days are a bit weird too,as others have said, given they seem to incentivize more drivers to "drive for a time" yet at least in the case of Corvette land are not really competitive.
    From one East Coaster to another, welcome to SoCal!

    It's not as bad as it sounds. It is a bit "Wild West" out here so some drivers (azzhats) pull crap here that wouldn't be tolerated back east or in the Pacifc Northwest. Having said that, I prefer the looser, less regulated approach here. You'll quickly find out who the idiots are. Just avoid them or at least don't let them get under your skin.

    NASA is big here and runs a tight ship in their HPDE and racing groups. Same with the BMW CCA and other marque clubs.

    I'm assuming that you live in SoCal. If so, be sure to make it up to the Northern California tracks. They are awesome. Laguna Seca, Sonoma (formerly called Infineon and Sears Point), and Thunderhill are fantastic tracks and worth the drive.
    Last edited by MikeColangelo; 05-19-2014 at 10:59 PM.

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    It's all in how you spin it. Do you like a more controlled environment or do you prefer more freedom and responsibility for your own safety?

    You can make a good argument for either side.

    I have my preference.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fe4 View Post
    As evidence of the problems with that I tried to kill Moti on my next day there because I had no idea how 100hp cars go through T5/T6.
    Ahhhh, it was you!
    I remember that one... yeah, I was not expecting to see brake lights, haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeColangelo View Post
    From one East Coaster to another, welcome to SoCal!

    It's not as bad as it sounds. It is a bit "Wild West" out here so some drivers (azzhats) pull crap here that wouldn't be tolerated back east or in the Pacifc Northwest. Having said that, I prefer the looser, less regulated approach here. You'll quickly find out who the idiots are. Just avoid them or at least don't let them get under your skin.

    NASA is big here and runs a tight ship in their HPDE and racing groups. Same with the BMW CCA and other marque clubs.

    I'm assuming that you live in SoCal. If so, be sure to make it up to the Northern California tracks. They are awesome. Laguna Seca, Sonoma (formerly called Infineon and Sears Point), and Thunderhill are fantastic tracks and worth the drive.
    Thanks for the welcome - LS and Sonoma are on the list. Not sure what the best way to access them in my fragile old street car is, but it will happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Ahhhh, it was you!
    I remember that one... yeah, I was not expecting to see brake lights, haha.
    I don't go full track right on the exit of 5 in my vette, so why would anyone else??

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    It may be due to the fact that I have no power, and it may be due to the fact that I'm cognizant of my surroundings and worked my way up to speed, but I've never had problems with the chicane either direction. I've spun off 11 a couple times due to being stupid, but never had problems with the chicane. I have more brake and tire than I have power, which also helps. I'm also the guy who raises his hand and shares what I've experienced in certain corners as a refresher for people who haven't been on track in a while or who, while they know how to drive, have not driven SoW- which usually makes other people roll their eyes but hey, I want everyone to drive home in one piece.

    I solely use XS for my track events. It's related to a few things- they're cheap, I like their instructors, and they treat me well. I think I did a Speed Ventures track day back in like '05 or '06 and I didn't like it- felt too formal and all the old people scare me.
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