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Thread: Count the days until the end of HPDE as we know it

  1. #21
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    Moved to a new thread. Sorry for the distraction....

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    Senior Member superpilun's Avatar
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    Speed limits would absolutely destroy any track day organizers that try to implement it. There is definitely room for improvement for safety with track design, barriers, run-off room, etc. I'm not sure what mandated safety equipment would do to the sport. I'm not even sure what you would mandate. Seat, harness, and roll bar?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Let's see the data. Then we can make a real decision about need for change.
    Find your own data, you brought it up!

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    the biggest threat is litigation.. we just need to deal with the lawyers lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Find your own data, you brought it up!
    The burden of proof lies on those claiming something needs to be done.
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    This is madness.
    There's a need for updated safety standards, no doubts, but I literally feel that we are watching HPDE being murdered right in front of our eyes and for what?
    In the name of false sense of safety?
    Without any need to prove that this is indeed the one factor that is to blame nor a way to show that this is indeed the solution?
    Killing the sport for a leap of faith that this might be the solution to something that can barely even be considered the problem?
    The damage that this will do to the sport is irreversible.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    Interesting article. If you read between the lines you can see a scca club guy losing participation to open track day organizers and trying to put a limit on hpde in an attempt to convert more of them into full race car drivers. I think in the end the race tracks will be the ones that won't go with this. Race tracks can't afford to lose the attendance.

    Ultimately I think as self driving cars appear in 10 years hpde may be doomed anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    Agreed. The thing that puts more people at risk should be held under higher scrutiny and concern. The thing that puts less people at risk should be held under less scrutiny and concern.

    Glad we thought about it.
    The point I was trying to make was that you need to look at both the top and the bottom of the fraction. The total number of deaths in HPDE isn't a useful number to use to assess your personal risk unless you know how many people are at risk. Only a tiny percentage of the population goes to the track, so a few deaths a year can't be compared directly to 3600 drownings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    This is madness.
    There's a need for updated safety standards, no doubts, but I literally feel that we are watching HPDE being murdered right in front of our eyes and for what?
    In the name of false sense of safety?
    Without any need to prove that this is indeed the one factor that is to blame nor a way to show that this is indeed the solution?
    Killing the sport for a leap of faith that this might be the solution to something that can barely even be considered the problem?
    The damage that this will do to the sport is irreversible.
    Huge +1 here. While I do agree that modern cars are capable of ludicrous speeds, creating speed limits is not the answer. I think track safety standards need to be improved more than anything...I'm looking at you Willow Springs. Given the speeds cars can reach it makes more sense to improve the safety of the tracks with improved run off, barriers, etc with the knowledge that cars are entering the corners much faster than possible in years past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    Agreed. The thing that puts more people at risk should be held under higher scrutiny and concern. The thing that puts less people at risk should be held under less scrutiny and concern.

    Glad we thought about it.
    F1 safety affects 20 drivers + obviously the fans. Yet they still improve the safety, changing regulations, procedures, etc...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ETK View Post
    The point I was trying to make was that you need to look at both the top and the bottom of the fraction. The total number of deaths in HPDE isn't a useful number to use to assess your personal risk unless you know how many people are at risk. Only a tiny percentage of the population goes to the track, so a few deaths a year can't be compared directly to 3600 drownings.
    I know that was your point, I was just being an ass.

    I disagree with your point. Per capita death rate for a completely optional, luxury activity where people sign liability waivers is irrelevant.

    Let me ask you this. What are your non-emotional reasons why you think organizations should implement mandatory requirements on drivers above and beyond what is being done by, say, Extreme Speed, for the purposes of keeping those driver's safe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    F1 safety affects 20 drivers + obviously the fans. Yet they still improve the safety, changing regulations, procedures, etc...
    So?
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    Kam
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    Not sure if this has been mentioned, but... what about personal responsibility? What happened to be held accountable for your own actions?

    Some groups have insurance to run track days to cover their ass because of people not owning up to their responsibilities. I expect a organization that runs a track event to do these things:
    1. Let me drive on track at speeds I cannot safely do on the street.

    Beyond that, I expect nothing else from the organizers.
    Forced speed limits is beyond mental.
    We go to the track to AVOID speed limits, not pay to embrace them.
    If some organizations want to do speed limits, let them. Forcing it on ALL organizations, terrible.

    But, I'm sure this point has been made.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam View Post
    Forced speed limits is beyond mental.
    ...
    But, I'm sure this point has been made.
    Not nearly as loudly as it should be.

  14. #34
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    Surprised some of you would hand over your balls so easily. Speed limit on a racetrack? What's next? Raisins on cookies?
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    I don't think it's a bad idea if implemented for novices only. Beyond that, I do not see it working out very well.
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    I don't think it's a bad idea if implemented for novices only. Beyond that, I do not see it working out very well.

    ^ thats call a lead follow, its already done.

    Seems to be about 50 steps of nuance between what can be done reasonably to address specific cases this draconian all inclusive Nurfing.

    I'd expect this from a group of 'concerned mothers' but the fact that this is being talked about INSIDE the track community.... WAT D FAQ? I'm all for safety; but its NEVER been proven a good idea to legislate morality or common sense.. What's more baffling still, is in this case, the very rule would be TOTAL CONTRADICTION to the reason we all go to the track.

    HOW IS THIS A THING!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by illwillem View Post
    I don't think it's a bad idea if implemented for novices only. Beyond that, I do not see it working out very well.

    ^ thats call a lead follow, its already done.

    Seems to be about 50 steps of nuance between what can be done reasonably to address specific cases this draconian all inclusive Nurfing.

    I'd expect this from a group of 'concerned mothers' but the fact that this is being talked about INSIDE the track community.... WAT D FAQ? I'm all for safety; but its NEVER been proven a good idea to legislate morality or common sense.. What's more baffling still, is in this case, the very rule would be TOTAL CONTRADICTION to the reason we all go to the track.

    HOW IS THIS A THING!?
    Because emotions. People don't like hearing about other people die. It makes them all teary eyed and uncomfortable. And, people will do anything to avoid teary eyed discomfort, including passing strict rules for everybody else. But not them. No one here has suggested a speed limit for advanced drivers such as themselves.
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    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    My gold chain has no speed limit.

    11889621_10206473517427955_3038431353375028532_n.jpg

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    My gold chain has no speed limit.

    Attachment 9283
    Dude. That gives you carte blanche to drive flatout wherever you damn well please.
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    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    My gold chain has no speed limit.

    Attachment 9283
    Why can't I like this more than once?
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