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Thread: Cost analysis for club racing

  1. #61
    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    about 15% gain over 91
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    all this 140whp talk makes me feel bad for miatas. lol. E85 for evos from 380whp on 91 can make 440 on same dyno. So that is 3/7ths power of the magical 140whp # you all keep referring to.
    That's it?Makes me feel bad for the Evos There are few M3s that from 3.2l make 750+whp and 700+ wtq @ E85 .
    But that would be in the superbimmer category

  3. #63
    Señor Member b3d3g1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    List your current hardware.
    Everything will be good in my world once I finally get a programmable ECU in my car over winter. I just want to do it right the first time.
    Currently: BP4W, '91 ECU, '91 Intake (AFM and all), RB header - 123 hp
    -Anthony
    1991 Miata - Trogdor SuperMiata
    2011 Ram 2500 - all the torque
    2016 Kawasaki Versys 650LT - commuter
    2016 KTM 690 Duke - parked at the dealer

  4. #64
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    Everything will be good in my world once I finally get a programmable ECU in my car over winter. I just want to do it right the first time.
    Currently: BP4W, '91 ECU, '91 Intake (AFM and all), RB header - 123 hp
    You wont need E85. Just do the intake and ECU.
    Sonnys numbers are not relevant to your totally different long block. 123whp is exactly what you hardware should make as it sits.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    Señor Member b3d3g1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    You wont need E85. Just do the intake and ECU.
    Sonnys numbers are not relevant to your totally different long block. 123whp is exactly what you hardware should make as it sits.
    Yeah I get that. It just seemed like you guys were surprised by those numbers with those mods and emphasizing the E85 part. I have no tuning or E85 experience so I was trying to make sense of what part was so news worthy and could be applicable to me in the future.
    -Anthony
    1991 Miata - Trogdor SuperMiata
    2011 Ram 2500 - all the torque
    2016 Kawasaki Versys 650LT - commuter
    2016 KTM 690 Duke - parked at the dealer

  6. #66
    RaceTape Ninja Force McCocken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    One of the big reasons I'm going to be making all the effort to run SPM. I've dreamed of doing enduros, never thought it could happen. But late summer at WSIR??? I get sweaty just thinking about it.. not in a good way. Like, sweat where you don't want it because you know how freaking hot it's going to be... that kind of way.

    -Ryan
    Sack up, Nancy and put your Big Boy pants on. 90/90 is par for the course here in the Southeast. 90 degrees, 90% humidity.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    Yeah I get that. It just seemed like you guys were surprised by those numbers with those mods and emphasizing the E85 part. I have no tuning or E85 experience so I was trying to make sense of what part was so news worthy and could be applicable to me in the future.
    Definitely surprised at how much difference the intake made. The ECu and E85 gains were already known for the most part.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    That's it?Makes me feel bad for the Evos There are few M3s that from 3.2l make 750+whp and 700+ wtq @ E85 .
    But that would be in the superbimmer category
    I wished i had 2 extra cyl and another 1.2L of displacement. I am sure I could make those numbers too. Anyways, sorry for the off topic.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
    2nd Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at BRP 13CW

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    all this 140whp talk makes me feel bad for miatas. lol. E85 for evos from 380whp on 91 can make 440 on same dyno. So that is 3/7ths power of the magical 140whp # you all keep referring to.
    SuperMiata:

    - w2w racing actually requires some skill outside of having the most whp
    - will not require 6 engines to complete a full season
    - gets the attention of grown men in Castro district

    Time Attack Evo:

    - pretty much guaranteed a trophy at every event
    - gets more likes on Facebook
    - gets the attention of teenage boys everywhere

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    hahaha i don't need 6 engines -__-. Just 2 or 3. :P
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
    2nd Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at BRP 13CW

  11. #71
    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    Bump.

  12. #72
    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    ST2 corvettes are probably cheaper to run than most would guess. Once you get them set up properly that is. Obviously still way more than running a miata, but still doable for many people. Getting a car that is already setup for racing is key. You need good cooling (oil, tranny, diff), skf hubs, big brake kit with cooling, turn 1 ps pump, poly or spherical suspension bearings, wing/splitter, and good shocks. A dry sump will make your engine last multiple years and is worth the $3-5k investment IMO. My corvette came with most of this stuff for under $20k. But figure $30k for a race ready car with spares. Tires are going to be your biggest cost especially if you don't win contingencies. A set will cost you $1500 and you will need 1 set per race weekend. Brake pads last maybe 3 weekends and rotors can last a season. Front pads are around $300. With proper fluids and cooling, the drivetrain should last multiple seasons. Maybe a rebuilt clutch once every year or 2 and rebuilt diff/tranny every 2-3 years. Engine rebuild is around $5k and crate LS3 is around $6500 with intake manifold and throttle body. Gas is another big cost compared to miatas especially if you run or mix race gas. ST2 is cheaper than SCCA because you can run a stock engine on 91 pump gas. In SCCA you pretty much need a built engine on race gas to be competitive. SCCA is also more expensive because they spec out the parts you have to run rather than leaving them open like nasa does. Since nasa is power to weight if your engine makes less power then you just have to work on reducing weight. So a typical weekend:

    Registration $350
    Motel $150
    Tires $1500
    Gas $150 (triple for race gas)
    Towing fuel $150-$200
    Other consumables/misc repairs $300/weekend

    Maybe $2500 per weekend? Obviously tires are the biggest variable. Winning tires or running more/less per weekend will greatly affect costs. It also costs a lot of money to acquire all the spares you need unless they came with the car (wheels, brake pads/rotors, hubs, tranny, diff, clutch, axles, control arms, fluids, etc etc). Corvette guys feel free to add to or correct any of my figures which are just off the top of my head.

    But if you consider these cars are typically among the fastest production based cars at the race track the costs are pretty low.
    Last edited by redtopz; 01-19-2015 at 10:44 AM.

  13. #73
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    By my napkin, $2k a weekend in tires and drivetrain. Oy.

  14. #74
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamz14 View Post
    We run Toyo RR's . ..
    So break down what you actually spend in a regional weekend for SCCA and NASA please. Actual costs for your team, not theoretical.
    Entries
    Fuel for car
    Fuel for tow rig
    Fuel to transport crew, if any
    Lodging
    Meals
    Consumables


    Maybe throw in the total minutes of track time and minutes of racing
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  15. #75
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    . SCCA is also more expensive because they spec out the parts you have to run rather than leaving them open like nasa does. Since nasa is power to weight if your engine makes less power then you just have to work on reducing weight. .
    you nailed it here. spec racing is not cheaper. never has, never will.

    when everyone has the exact same parts. if you can spend extra $5,000 (polish, rebuild or just swap out parts till you get the one) to gain that extra 4 whp (in say a low hp Miata). it is worth it, because you are almost guaranteed a front running. $5k is nothing is grand scheme of things, look at how much you spend in a season.
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
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  16. #76
    Faster than Oli jimt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    Registration $350
    Motel $150
    Tires $1500
    Gas $150 (triple for race gas)
    Towing fuel $150-$200
    Other consumables/misc repairs $300/weekend
    Pretty spot on to my budgeting over the years. I can stretch tires to a second weekend depending on temperatures. Also, I had 3+ years on my diff before it needed a rebuild, and my transmission has been running strong for over 5 years.
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    Anytime a car leaves the shop for a race weekend I debit 1500 from the account and pretend that nothing ever goes wrong or breaks and the cost to prep the car is zero. HA. No consumables (fluids, brakes, etc) are counted either.

    450 entry fees
    650 tires - we use one set per weekend, some use more, some use less
    250 tow vehicle diesel
    150 race car gas - I use only 91 octane gas from the track pumps to get consistent fuel quality. Plus I'm lazy and don't want to stop.

    I stay at the track in a motorhome. Doesn't really save any money but makes the venture much more bearable and means I don't have to count hotel costs and I'm not including food costs as we do our own cooking

    Typically NASA race times start when the first car enters the track and ends when the last car rolls in. SCCA uses the green and checkered flags to time race length except at AAA. The net effect is that the SCCA races and qualifying are a couple of laps longer than NASA typically as the in and out laps are pretty slow.
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    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    I'm running SCCA T2 which is detuned 2012 T1. I used to race with Oli, Bill and JimT, etal. At 2014 Runoffs I was solidly midpack finished 9th of 20 cars so I can't impress anyone with my skill or ability to stress my equipment. That said, I'm still on my original 2004 Corvette motor, stock diff, stock shocks, T1 swaybars, Stoptech brakes, electric windows, A/C, +350lbs ballast so my car is underoptimized for the class. I run at least 3 race weekends/ set of tires but there is minimal local T2 presence so I can get away with it. My brake pads last me a season which is about 6 race weekends. Rotors I change about every few years out of paranoia when my car was shipped to out of state races and I wanted no possible failures. Oil changed every other race. Diligent pre-flight checks with clutch and brake bleeds as SOP. A race weekend is usually only swapping old cr@ppy tires for less cr@ppy tires for the race. I don't even add oil. The expenses you can expect are not that bad and for sure less than my old T1 crowd is spending today playing with Aero and mods in ST2/GT2. I don't think I can race much cheaper. What kills the budget is the random blown motor or visit to the bodyshop. BRP is $400 bucks in entry fees, $40/nite at the chateau 6, gas/diesel, and tires. I think I'm getting away pretty cheap. I better buy Oli lunch next time I see him.

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    Senior Member rhouck's Avatar
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    Purchase price for competitive: ~$4-6k

    Weekend cost:
    Registration: $250 (4 races, 4 practices, qualifying, plus Friday racer practice -- $50/additional race, some do 8/weekend)
    Motel: $0 (camp)
    Tires: $400 (1 new set per weekend, reuse takeoffs for practices)
    Gas: $30
    Towing fuel $50-100 (depends on vehicle)
    Generator gas: $10
    Other consumables:
    - brake pads/rotors: ~$10/weekend
    - oil/filter: $15/weekend

    Approximately $750/weekend of 4 races (plus practice and qualifying). Grid sizes 15-30 people with close, competitive racing. Will do sub-1:50 at Chuckwalla.

    All costs for middleweight (600cc) sportbike with CVMA
    Follow my racing: https://www.youtube.com/ryandhouck
    2009 Yamaha R6 (race bike)
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  20. #80
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
    Purchase price for competitive: ~$4-6k

    Weekend cost:
    Registration: $250 (4 races, 4 practices, qualifying, plus Friday racer practice -- $50/additional race, some do 8/weekend)
    Motel: $0 (camp)
    Tires: $400 (1 new set per weekend, reuse takeoffs for practices)
    Gas: $30
    Towing fuel $50-100 (depends on vehicle)
    Generator gas: $10
    Other consumables:
    - brake pads/rotors: ~$10/weekend
    - oil/filter: $15/weekend

    Approximately $750/weekend of 4 races (plus practice and qualifying). Grid sizes 15-30 people with close, competitive racing. Will do sub-1:50 at Chuckwalla.

    All costs for middleweight (600cc) sportbike with CVMA
    Rate of injury?
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