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Thread: Cost analysis for club racing

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    I was kicking around the idea of building a 2250# E85 burning 1.6 to see if it could hold it's own against the 2300# 140whp 1.8's. I have a really healthy junkyard 1.6 (190psi) from the wrecked '91 and the OGK tub that already has a Miatacage installed. What do you think?
    is healthy junkyard 1.6 still around ? may be just let them do a 1.8 upgrade.. probably simpler and more reliable (running bigger 1.8 brakes and rear end)....
    because even if your healthy 1.6 runs competitively, it doesn't mean other less healthy 1.6 will. unlike 1.8, even your average 150k miles na8 engine will make close to class power with E85 and ECU.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    I see a 100k 1.6 makes max power of 125 with ECU and E85.

    that means 1.6 min comp weight gonna be close to 2,050LB to be competitive
    not doable with a 200LB driver (180LB driver with 20LB of gear).
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    is healthy junkyard 1.6 still around ? may be just let them do a 1.8 upgrade.. probably simpler and more reliable (running bigger 1.8 brakes and rear end)....
    because even if your healthy 1.6 runs competitively, it doesn't mean other less healthy 1.6 will. unlike 1.8, even your average 150k miles na8 engine will make close to class power with E85 and ECU.

    I see a 100k 1.6 makes max power of 125 with ECU and E85.

    that means 1.6 min comp weight gonna be close to 2,050LB to be competitive
    not doable with a 200LB driver (180LB driver with 20LB of gear).
    Good point. Even it I did make say, 135whp, it's not relevant. Junkyard 1.6's with that much compression are all but non-existent.
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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Emilio or William. This is really really tempting.

    Can either of give me a rough low and high number. Assume I don't have a miata. What is the min, avg, max cost to run the year. Let's say 8 events a year.

    Car (Fixed Cost) range - $

    Full Safety (Fixed Cost)- $

    Tires (Avg per event based on 1 set for 2 or 3 weekends - $______x3-4 =

    Mods(intake/exhaust/suspension/tune/what have you etc...) - Fixed cost $

    Brake Pads/Rotors/Oil/Spark Plugs/Hubs/other maintenance/known parts to break and need to be replaced/consumables not listed etc... - Avg per weekend - $

    Fuel (per event )- $_____x8 weekends =

    Entry Fee/Gate/transponder (per event)- $______x8 weekends =

    Total cost to run a year. $______

    obviously, if you already have the car race ready and just need to budget out consumables/fees/gas/tires/etc. will be alot cheaper. So just minus those items.
    Last edited by Pure EvoIX; 10-01-2013 at 06:56 PM.
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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    Total cost to run a year.
    Probably cheaper than that Rice Attack Evo of yours!

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Haha! =)
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Im gonna start a Super Evo Series (SES) (service engine symbol?). Budget to run a year...$100k. LOLOL. After a 45min race, the 20 evo field will be down to 2 when the checkered falls. The trick is to drive 6/10ths for it to last 45mins. bahahahaha. Slow and steady wins the race.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

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    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    We're still working out how many races we'll do next year, points table, drops, etc. Probably looking at 8 weekends. Some will be just one race on Saturday. Others will be split one 30min on Sat and two 15 min supersprints on Sun. Something like 16 total races, maybe 5 drops. There will probably one 3hr day enduro in the late summer at WSIR that will count for double points. The enduro will have mandatory 5 minute pit stops like Chump so newbs have a chance. So calculating a per season total is contingent upon the final 2014 schedule. Assuming 10 actual races, 30 and 15 minute plus the 3hr enduro.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    Emilio or William. This is really really tempting.

    Can either of give me a rough low and high number. Assume I don't have a miata. What is the min, avg, max cost to run the year. Let's say 8 events a year.

    Car (Fixed Cost) range - $7500 to build one from scratch assuming you do most of the work, lots used parts and have TC design put the cage in. A really nice car with brand new everything around $18k.

    Full Safety (Fixed Cost)- $ Included in car cost

    Tires (Avg per event based on 1 set for 2 or 3 weekends - $_450 (racer price) set last 7-8hrs at race pace. I think most guys will use 3 sets a year. Maybe 4 if they do every race plus the enduro.

    Mods - Fixed cost $ included in car cost

    Brake Pads/Rotors/Oil/Spark Plugs/Hubs/other maintenance/known parts to break and need to be replaced/consumables not listed etc... - Avg per weekend - $
    good pads $100 per weekend
    Hubs $250 one set per season if prepped with good lube beforehand (Amsoil 2000 grease)
    Rotors. $90/set, one per season
    Oil: 5W30 Mobil 1 or Rotella from Walmart and $7 (expensive!) filter about every 8-10hrs. Even tired BP's don't burn much oil.
    Brake fluid: $30 per flush, about two per year
    Trans lube: Maybe two times per season at about $25
    Diff lube: 1-2 per season at $12

    Not much else breaks on them assuming it's healthy to begin with. The most expensive part on a Supermiata will be the long block at about $1000.



    Fuel (per event )- $_____x8 weekends = You burn about 6 gallons an hour. CA91 is fine so figure $4.00 /gallon

    Entry Fee/Gate/transponder (per event)- $______x8 weekends = Entries are usually $300 for the entire weekend, Just buy a transponder for $300. Much easier and less hassle

    Total cost to run a year.
    Basically just take whatever it costs to time trial your Evo per hour, divide it by 8.
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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    lol -____- at your last comment. I am glad I am sponsored this year or else it would just be stupid ridiculous expensive.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    so about $13,000-$16,000 tops from scratch for the whole year. Cheaper if you already own a miata. Damn. 2nd year would be even cheaper. Minus $7500-$9000 (car + mods). So $5500-$7000 to race/year in consumables. CHEAP!!!! 3-4 hrs (12x15-20min) a weekend x 8 weekends. $229-$291/hr avg for 3hrs of track time a weekend. $172-$218/hr avg for 4hrs of track time a weekend. This is if you do every single weekend. If do 75% of events, multiply those figures by 0.75.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
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  11. #51
    LongWinded National Champ Bueller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Not the ideal thread for this question. Read through this SoCal SuperMiata thread

    and this
    SuperMiata Rules & Regulations | SuperMiata – Miata Challenge

    You'll need a 1.8 to be competitive. Fresh 99-05 engine will make class power on pump gas. 94-97 1.8 or worn out 99-05 will need E85.
    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    SuperMiata Rules & Regulations | SuperMiata – Miata Challenge

    Richard's version:

    140whp cap, but there is a formula for calculating area under the curve (so no built engine).... basically any 1.8 will get there.....formula is ECU, intake, exhaust, junkyard engine and may be E85.
    2,300LB minimum comp weight - easily doable with a 220LB driver. and doable with a 300LB driver if you work on it.
    front EP dam, and rear spoiler
    spec 205/50-15 RC1 tire at special price of just under $110.
    any suspension (but max limit of $2.5k ? which covers 95% Miata suspension)

    still working on getting 1.6 to get there. won't be easy, but 1.6SM are ridiculous cheap and plenty...may be lower comp weight. or may be just allow them to drop in a junkyard $700 1.8.
    Thanks for the info, and sorry if its off topic. If you guys want, move the posts to where you think its better suited.

    140whp...wow, yeah i dont think 1.6 SMs can be competitive. Then again, i run in the back of the pack so what difference does it make if i run in the back of another class?
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
    140whp...wow, yeah i dont think 1.6 SMs can be competitive. Then again, i run in the back of the pack so what difference does it make if i run in the back of another class?
    1.6 is really difficult to get power out of it.
    Sonny's 1.8NA, only mods were CAI, ECU, E85, exhaust (but with stock manifold) was 135whp. a header will push it to 140whp.

    my friend has a 1.6SM. trying to find a cheapest way for him to run SuperMiata:
    drop in NB1 engine (about $300 more than na8 engine, but makes quite a bit more power)
    keep 1.6 clutch.
    ECU (MS2 PnP)
    using existing SM 1.6 CAI ?
    header and cat delete.
    EP air dam and spoiler

    this is 140whp with 91. probably a $2,500 investment (including standard timing belt and water pump maintenance). but it should add ~30whp. that's 25% more power !! should be a ton more fun.
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    Señor Member b3d3g1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    Sonny's 1.8NA, only mods were CAI, ECU, E85, exhaust (but with stock manifold) was 135whp. a header will push it to 140whp.
    you guys keep showing this fact but it means nothing to me without a comparison to the same setup with 91.
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    I wanna go fast! thepass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    There will probably one 3hr day enduro in the late summer at WSIR that will count for double points. The enduro will have mandatory 5 minute pit stops like Chump so newbs have a chance.
    One of the big reasons I'm going to be making all the effort to run SPM. I've dreamed of doing enduros, never thought it could happen. But late summer at WSIR??? I get sweaty just thinking about it.. not in a good way. Like, sweat where you don't want it because you know how freaking hot it's going to be... that kind of way.

    -Ryan
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    I wanna go fast! thepass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    you guys keep showing this fact but it means nothing to me without a comparison to the same setup with 91.
    It would have been nice to see the changes they made to Sonny's car one at a time. You change more than one thing, you can't say for sure which thing made X amount of difference. The E85 allows quite a lot more timing I assume.

    Can the earlier 1.8 make class power on 91 pump gas? Because for various reasons, many don't look at E85 as an option right now. (nevermind that I don't because I will still be driving to/from the track *ghasp*)
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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    I can picture 40 trucks and trailers and miatas all lined astern (sp)
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    you guys keep showing this fact but it means nothing to me without a comparison to the same setup with 91.
    We've ran e85 over 3 years now. I want to say 7 or more cars. In NA Miata. They give between 4% to 6% power boost.
    I am pretty confident without a back to back test on sonny's car. It added 5 to 7 whp just by going to E85.

    GRM also did the same test with na Miata and made 7 more whp.
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  18. #58
    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    It also burns cooler. Your EGT wont be as high. Can add more timing.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
    2nd Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at BRP 13CW

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    you guys keep showing this fact but it means nothing to me without a comparison to the same setup with 91.
    E85 makes 6% more power. That's sort of standard info. The rest is intake and a bit of fine tuning with the ECU. It is not complicated or mysterious. E85, cold air intake and programmable ECU made 20whp more on his NA8. You'll need that and a header to get to 140whp.

    List your current hardware.


    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    You change more than one thing, you can't say for sure which thing made X amount of difference. The E85 allows quite a lot more timing I assume.

    Can the earlier 1.8 make class power on 91 pump gas?
    I actually pulled timing out of the default map that ships with the MS2PNP. 6% guys, don't overthink it.

    When I was building and tuning the 95R, the single largest power gain on CA91 came from ditching the MAF/airbox and bolting on a KN 69-600TP intake. More than the header, exhaust or programmable ECU.
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    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    all this 140whp talk makes me feel bad for miatas. lol. E85 for evos from 380whp on 91 can make 440 on same dyno. So that is 3/7ths power of the magical 140whp # you all keep referring to.
    Last edited by Pure EvoIX; 10-01-2013 at 10:29 PM.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
    2nd Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at BRP 13CW

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