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Thread: Consumables Costs for track cars

  1. #21
    Captain Planet tq3z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    He runs enduros, I run sprint races, and usually run enduros like sprint races. He practices keeping the brakes and tires on the car, I try to set the car on fire to see if it will somehow lower my lap times.

    Apples and oranges.

    No idea which one of us is currently quicker, that's why I was trying to make that 2012 trackHQ challenge happen.

    I was just busting your balls bud, lol
    Do you understand?

  2. #22
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Since the corvette guys are cowering, is there a fast S2K driver in the house? e36 BMW?

  3. #23
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    I probably know the E36 and FD costs pretty well, but damn it's a long list to fill out.

  4. #24
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    I probably know the E36 and FD costs pretty well, but damn it's a long list to fill out.
    It gets easier once you get started. It's kinda fun to fill out. RX-7 info would be excellent.

  5. #25
    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    +1

    It's corvettte this and corvette that until the actual costs are discussed. My bet? That you could run exactly two competitive Miatas for the cost of one T1 car.
    We are just teasing you guys! I've said it before and I'll say it again, I respect all race cars. I started getting dizzy reading through the first post. Is there an excel format that we could just fill in and it could provide totals? That might be more effective for comparisons. I'm sure consumables are higher in a faster car vs. a slower car (gas, brakes, tires, etc.). There are many faster race classes than ST2 and T1, but I choose to stay here to keep costs down. However, one of our new T1 racers just left spec miata because he said it was going to cost him about the same amount of $$ to build a winning spec miata as a T1 corvette. You can buy a front running T1 vette for less than $30k.

    My engine: $4000. Still running my stock 2004 ls6 in ST2. New crate engine in the T1 car should (hopefully) last for years. Had one lemon engine last less than a year, but it had codes and issues the day I bought it.
    Brake pads last 2 race weekends minimum: $175 front pads, $175 rear
    Front rotors seem to last a whole season: AP rotors $500 for a pair of replacement rings. Complete front brake system with calipers and rotors was $2650.
    Rear rotors: need maybe 3 pairs per season: $80 per pair
    Gas: 91 octane $4.60/gal, 9 gallons per race. Or $8.50 for race gas. I've tried both and cant' tell any difference even with a race-gas tune.
    Suspension: used T1 kit from a retired racer for $1500, included springs, front control arms, sway bars, and shocks
    Cooling: Dewitts radiator with EOC ($620), diff cooler (250), tranny cooler ($250)
    Shop labor: free, I do it all myself
    Tires: hoosier A6's, $1500 per set (typically one new set per weekend). But I've won 3 full sets this year with contingencies (thanks hoosier!).
    Drivetrain: just replaced my original 2004 clutch and tranny as preventative maintenance. They were still working fine. Clutch: $460, tranny $2400.
    Things likely to fail: ps pump and rack maybe once a year with stock units. $250 for rack rebuild and $240 for turn one pump. Tie rod ends, maybe $40 each?

    That's all I can think of right now. Maybe someone else can add to it.
    Last edited by redtopz; 07-13-2012 at 11:38 AM.
    99 C5 corvette SCCA GT2
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  6. #26
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    We are just teasing you guys! I've said it before and I'll say it again, I respect all race cars. I started getting dizzy reading through the first post. Is there an excel format that we could just fill in and it could provide totals? That might be more effective for comparisons. I'm sure consumables are higher in a faster car vs. a slower car (gas, brakes, tires, etc.). There are many faster race classes than ST2 and T1, but I choose to stay here to keep costs down. However, one of our new T1 racers just left spec miata because he said it was going to cost him about the same amount of $$ to build a winning spec miata as a T1 corvette. You can buy a front running T1 vette for less than $30k.

    My engine: $3250. Still running my stock 2004 ls6 in ST2. New crate engine in the T1 car should (hopefully) last for years. Had one lemon engine last less than a year, but it had codes and issues the day I bought it.
    Brake pads last 2 race weekends minimum: $175 front pads, $175 rear
    Front rotors seem to last a whole season: AP rotors $500 for a pair of replacement rings. Complete front brake system with calipers and rotors was $2650.
    Rear rotors: need maybe 3 pairs per season: $80 per pair
    Gas: 91 octane $4.60/gal, 9 gallons per race. Or $8.50 for race gas. I've tried both and cant' tell any difference even with a race-gas tune.
    Suspension: used T1 kit from a retired racer for $1500, included springs, front control arms, sway bars, and shocks
    Cooling: Dewitts radiator with EOC ($620), diff cooler (250), tranny cooler ($250)
    Shop labor: free, I do it all myself
    Tires: hoosier A6's, $1500 per set (typically one new set per weekend). But I've won 3 full sets this year with contingencies (thanks hoosier!).
    Drivetrain: just replaced my original 2004 clutch and tranny as preventative maintenance. They were still working fine. Clutch: $460, tranny $2400.
    Things likely to fail: ps pump and rack maybe once a year with stock units. $250 for rack rebuild and $240 for turn one pump. Tie rod ends, maybe $40 each?

    That's all I can think of right now. Maybe someone else can add to it.
    Bill, you fail to appreciate the importance of consistent formatting. The form is there for a reason. Also, the shop hour cost is there for a reason as well. I do all my work, but it's still important to factor the time in. Finally, while it might be ok in aggie circles "season" is not an acceptable unit of measurement for wear for sports cars.
    Last edited by robburgoon; 07-13-2012 at 10:07 AM.

  7. #27
    Faster than Oli jimt's Avatar
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    I took a crack at an S2000.

    Car
    2000-2009 Honda S2000
    F20 & F22
    $8000~$28000 Cost for typical complete donor car on craigslist/private party
    2:04 Lap time at BW13 CW / 2900 weight w/driver/ 200 whp / Street Tires
    1:56 Lap time at BW13 CW / 2700 weight w/driver/ 240 whp / R-Comps/Aero


    Engine
    Unknown hours Life expectancy for fresh crate motor
    Unknown hours Life expectancy for blueprinted race motor
    $800/8 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $6000 Cost of replacement new long block/crate motor
    $2500 Cost of healthy used long block
    6 qts $35 Oil & Filter special Mobile One Synthetic

    Cooling
    $000 Radiator, Stock Radiator Sufficient
    $000 Engine Oil cooler not required
    $000 Trans cooler not required
    $000 Diff cooler not required

    Fuel
    $4.00/91 pump
    8 gallons/hour

    Suspension
    $1800.00 Single adjustable coilovers
    $200 Front sway bar
    $200 Rear bump steer kit (00-03 models)
    $150 race alignment
    $150 cornerweight
    For aero car: $1000 rear wing, $250 front splitter

    Tires
    $200 255/40/17 Nitto NT01 Size typically used for track use
    8 hours of track life

    Wheels
    Enkei or 949 Racing $250
    Never had any bend for TT.

    Brakes
    $200 Front brake pads Carbotech XP12
    10 Front pad life in hours of track use
    $160 Rear brake pads Carbotech XP10
    20 Rear pad life in hours of track use
    $80 Rotor, front
    20 Front rotor life in hours of track use (need to have brake ducts, otherwise 10 hours)
    $60 Rotor, rear
    40 Rear rotor life in hours of track use
    Whole season between required brake fluid flush

    Drivetrain
    $1000.00 Transmission new or rebuilt
    $400/4 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $250 Clutch
    $300/3 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $600 Differential
    $200/2 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours


    Bodywork
    $4000 Cost of cheap/salvage replacement tub if wrecked
    $4000 Cost to fabricate and install full cage

    This is relevant to W2W drivers that will typically replace a few body panels a year
    (all used)
    $200 Fender, front
    $250 Door
    $200 Bumper skin, front
    $50 Bumper support, front
    $150 Bumper skin, rear
    $50 Bumper support, front

    Known failure points

    $65/1 front rotors - They crack before they wear out.
    $165/1 Rear toe links Must be replaced every year
    $250/1 Valve retainers 2000-2003 2.0L Motors only. They must be replaced with stronger AP2 retainers or aftermarket. #1 cause of grenaded 2.0L motors
    Last edited by jimt; 07-13-2012 at 02:00 PM.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Jim, can you give us minimums for engine life? Did yours do 40 hours without blowing up?

  9. #29
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    ST2 FD RX7

    1993-1995
    Engine code: 13B-REW
    $8000-$25000 Cost for typical complete donor car on craigslist/private party (assuming blown engine or needing rebuild immediately)
    1:52/2750lbs/310rwhp/NT01

    Engine
    80 hours Life expectancy for fresh rebuild
    $800/8 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $3500 Cost of replacement new long block/crate motor
    $8000 Cost of replacement rebuilt motor with Mazdaspeed bearings, balancing, etc
    $1200 Cost of healthy used long block
    $3000-$5000 Turbo equipment
    $150 oil pan brace
    $400 catch can, lines and venting fittings
    $500 radiator, $300 oil coolers, $150 oil thermostat, $2000 v-mount or similar well ducted cooling Other modifications required to survive 40hrs/yr? (oil coolers, forged internals, oversize radiator, etc)
    $90 (6qts $15 each Motul, change with filter every 5 hours) Oil: number of qts x minimum quality required (5 qts x $3ea= $15)
    $12 Filter (every 5 hours)

    Cooling
    $500 Radiator, oversize if required
    $400 oil coolers
    $500 lines and fittings
    $2000 intercooler (vmount, or simliiar)
    $800/8 cost of shop labor for radiator/ billable hours
    $40 Radiator screen

    Fuel
    $3.65 E85
    12 gallons/hour
    **~$3000 worth of fuel system needed to support E85 properly

    Suspension
    $500-$10,000 shocks
    $300 urethane bushings + $600 install
    $100 alignment
    $100 cornerweight

    Tires
    275/40/17 size all around
    NT01 $195/ea
    ~8 HPDE days of life approx

    Wheels
    Enkei RPF1 17x10
    ~$200/ea

    Brakes
    $180 Front pads, Hawk Blue
    $140 Rear pads, Hawk Blue
    4 Front pad life in hours of track use
    10 Rear pad life in hours of track use
    $40 Rotor, front
    ~20 Front rotor life in hours of track use
    $20 Rotor, rear
    ~60 Rear rotor life in hours of track use
    Unknown hours between required brake fluid flush, Performance Friction 665

    Drivetrain
    $1000.00 Transmission rebuilt
    $200.00 Transmission junkyard, 50 hours life expectancy for 5th gear synchro
    $800.00 2001 spec JDM transmission, unknown life expectancy (I am about to find out)
    $600/4 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $1000 Clutch/flywheel lasts 2-3 years
    $3000 Double carbon clutch lasts forever (hopefully, will report in)
    $400/4 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $300 Stock Torsen LSD, seems to last forever with frequent fluid changes
    $200/2 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours

    Other typical drivetrain mods required that might be unique to the platform
    TBD

    Bodywork
    $3000-5000 Cost of cheap/salvage replacement tub if wrecked
    $3000 Cost to fabricate and install full cage
    $400 or 4 hours to make seat fit in small cockpit (same issue as Miata here but slightly improved)

    This is relevant to W2W drivers that will typically replace a few body panels a year
    $150 Fender OEM-style replacement, $200/pair fiberglass
    $400 Door craigslist
    $100-$1500 Bumper skin, front, depending on bumper
    $200 Bumper skin, rear eBay
    $300-600 Hood, fiberglass/cf replacement
    $500 Quarterpanel repair (cannot be unbolted)

    Known failure points
    These are items that have been known to sometime fail within 20-100 hours of being installed new. Examples : differential on 90-93 Miata (1), front hub on C5Z (2), rear hub on S2000 (2).

    Rear upper and lower ball joints, claimed ~50 hours of life, real-life TBD
    Wheel studs
    Stock front brakes are inadequate without a lot of cooling work

  10. #30
    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Bill, you fail to appreciate the importance of consistent formatting. The form is there for a reason. Also, the shop hour cost is there for a reason as well. I do all my work, but it's still important to factor the time in. Finally, while it might be ok in aggie circles "season" is not an acceptable unit of measurement for wear for sports cars.
    No, I'm just too lazy to use the format. My time is worth $500 per hour, but I work really fast . Racing season = 1 year. Oh and I will edit my engine cost to $4000. My old crate was $3250 but my new one was more. I'll try to go back and edit my post to the correct format later tonight.
    99 C5 corvette SCCA GT2
    99 Supermiata "Super"

  11. #31
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    No, I'm just too lazy to use the format. My time is worth $500 per hour, but I work really fast . Racing season = 1 year. Oh and I will edit my engine cost to $4000. My old crate was $3250 but my new one was more. I'll try to go back and edit my post to the correct format later tonight.
    Ahh, a year is so much better than a season. Still useless.

  12. #32
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post

    My engine: $4000. Still running my stock 2004 ls6 in ST2. New crate engine in the T1 car should (hopefully) last for years. Had one lemon engine last less than a year, but it had codes and issues the day I bought it.
    Brake pads last 2 race weekends minimum: $175 front pads, $175 rear
    Front rotors seem to last a whole season: AP rotors $500 for a pair of replacement rings. Complete front brake system with calipers and rotors was $2650.
    Rear rotors: need maybe 3 pairs per season: $80 per pair
    Gas: 91 octane $4.60/gal, 9 gallons per race. Or $8.50 for race gas. I've tried both and cant' tell any difference even with a race-gas tune.
    Suspension: used T1 kit from a retired racer for $1500, included springs, front control arms, sway bars, and shocks
    Cooling: Dewitts radiator with EOC ($620), diff cooler (250), tranny cooler ($250)
    Shop labor: free, I do it all myself
    Tires: hoosier A6's, $1500 per set (typically one new set per weekend). But I've won 3 full sets this year with contingencies (thanks hoosier!).
    Drivetrain: just replaced my original 2004 clutch and tranny as preventative maintenance. They were still working fine. Clutch: $460, tranny $2400.
    Things likely to fail: ps pump and rack maybe once a year with stock units. $250 for rack rebuild and $240 for turn one pump. Tie rod ends, maybe $40 each?

    That's all I can think of right now. Maybe someone else can add to it.
    So, if a season for Bill "I can't count in hours" Hayseed here is 8 race weekends, that's about 12 hours going fast (30min race + 10 min qual), 17 including warmups.

    Tires: $1150 per hour (two platypus)
    Gas: $72 per hour
    Engine: $135 per hour if it lasts 2 seasons
    Front Brakes: $40 per hour

    I think we'll hit 3 platypus.
    Last edited by robburgoon; 07-13-2012 at 02:06 PM.

  13. #33
    Senior Member suki101's Avatar
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    Infiniti G35/SCCA T2
    2003-2007
    VQ35DE
    $6000.00~$15000.00 Cost for typical complete donor car on craigslist/private party
    Lap time at BW13 CW (No Clue)/ Roughly 3270/ whp (No Clue)/R888

    Engine
    100-150 hours Life expectancy for fresh crate motor
    150 hours Life expectancy for blueprinted race motor
    Lobor cost; $800/8 hours
    $4000.00-5000.00 Cost of replacement new long block/crate motor
    $1200.00-2000.00 Cost of healthy used long block
    $36 Oil; 6 quarts Mobile 1 Syn.
    $8 Filter (Every 6 Hours)

    Cooling
    $0 Stock Radiator
    $300.00 Engine Oil Cooler
    $75.00 Power Steering Cooler
    $65.00 NISMO Diff Cover/Cooler
    Labor cost; $450/4 1/2 hours

    Fuel
    $4.60/91 Pump Gas
    12/hour

    Fuel/Other
    $600.00 Fuel Safe Cell
    Labor cost; $300/3 hours
    Suspension
    $1500.00 Double Adjustable Konis & NISMO springs (Per class rules)
    $350 NISMO Sway Bars (Per class rules)
    Labor cost; $300/3 hours
    $100 alignment

    Tires
    275/35/18
    Toyo/R888 ; about $240.00 ea. (Will be switching to NTO1s)
    6-8 hours of life before they Flintstone

    Wheels
    Enkie/PF01 18x9
    $1100.00 a set
    $275.00 ea.

    Brakes
    $195.95 Front brake pads. Porterfield R4-1
    10 Front pad life in hours of track use
    $109.95 Rear brake pads. Porterfield R4-1
    20 Rear pad life in hours of track use
    $80.00 rotor, Brembo front
    20 Front rotor life in hours of track use
    $60.00 rotor, Brembo rear
    40 Rear rotor life in hours of track use
    6-10 hours between required brake fluid flush
    $150.00, Goodridge SS Lines
    $14.00 can, ATE Super Blue Fluid (I've tried Motul & others; this seems to work the best so far)
    Labor Cost, Including a system flush; $300/3 hours

    Drivetrain
    $450.00 Clutch+PP
    Labor cost; $350/3 1/2 hours
    $850 used Differential, NISMO Clutch Type
    Set up and install; $300/3 hours

    Bodywork
    $5000.00-10,000.00 ? For a replacement tub/car. Really depends on the condition.
    $2000.00 was spent on the cage

    This is relevant to W2W drivers that will typically replace a few body panels a year
    $50.00-150.00 Fender, front
    $100.00-200.00 Doors
    $50.00-100.00 Bumper skin, front
    $50.00-75.00 Bumper support, front
    $50.00-100.00 Bumper skin, rear
    $50.00-75.00 Bumper support, rear
    (All prices quoted from researching private party ads)

    Known failure points

    1- Lower control arm bushings fail; $50.00 Whiteline Poly Bushings (now allowed per class rules)
    2- Clutch disk failure; $450.00. Had this happen to the car already.
    3- Valve cover gaskets leak causing oil fill the spark plug chamber and foul the coil packs;
    3- VQ35 Rev Up Oil Consumption kills the engine; will either have to rebuild or replace
    3- Power Steering Pump Failure; can be avoided by flushing the system every (10-12 Hours)

    Notes: The figures are ball park; most of the list can be applied to the 350z as well. More testing and development is needed for both car and the driver to determine the true cost of consumables.
    Last edited by suki101; 07-16-2012 at 06:36 AM. Reason: Update

  14. #34
    Faster than Oli jimt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Jim, can you give us minimums for engine life? Did yours do 40 hours without blowing up?
    I can't. My first motor had 40K miles or so before it went. The second motor had roughly 8K miles, and its still strong as ever. Never kept track of hours.
    ~ Jim Tway
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    Faster than Oli jimt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suki101 View Post
    Infiniti G35/SCCA T2
    2003-2007
    VQ35DE
    $6000.00~$15000.00 Cost for typical complete donor car on craigslist/private party
    Lap time at BW13 CW (No Clue)/ Roughly 3270/ whp (No Clue)/R888
    Where have you been racing this T-2 G35?
    ~ Jim Tway
    Tway Motorsports
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    #57 Pacific Automotive Recycling Center Corvette

    Brought to you by:
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  16. #36
    Senior Member suki101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimt View Post
    Where have you been racing this T-2 G35?
    SoCal; I have not been out this year yet but I'll be out in September with Cal Club.
    redtopz likes this.

  17. #37
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    You guys are failing at this. "Do it myself" doesn't mean 0 labor cost. It does for you, but not for Richard. If you did your own work, guess at how long a shop would take and figure $100 an hour unless your car requires "special" mechanics like a Ferrari or something.

  18. #38
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimt View Post
    I can't. My first motor had 40K miles or so before it went. The second motor had roughly 8K miles, and its still strong as ever. Never kept track of hours.
    Not even a guess at how many trackdays on the first engine?

  19. #39
    RaceTape Ninja Force McCocken's Avatar
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    Awesome topic!

    I am just starting to consider building a car for Honda Challenge. H4 or H5. I've been out for far too long. I stopped making spreadsheets on race projects because it was too depressing and I ran the risk of my wife flipping out.

    On the other hand, I met my wife at a track.
    Yer pal,
    Force

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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Heh, I use brakes twice as fast as Emilio.
    Emellio is, after all, the undisputed "Master of Momemtum".

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