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Thread: Consumables Costs for track cars

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Default Consumables Costs for track cars

    There have been some threads and posts about consumables costs here but I thought it would be useful to have a thread set up in a more searchable format. Using the data, someone might be able to rough sketch in a rough cost per hour or per year.

    LIST YOUR CAR TYPE IN POST TITLE

    Some basic assumptions on a typical HPDE or W2W car:

    Sees ~10 weekends a year (20 days) at an average of 2hrs per day so 40 hours a year.
    Minimal modifications for safety, reliability, speed and handling. Not a super modified or unlimited car but something that conceivably could be street driven.
    Any coolers needed for the drivetrain to survive 100hrs of track use in SoCal heat
    Brakes that allow it to complete a 30 minute session on BW 13CW on race tires without fading
    5/6pt harness
    One piece race seat
    Coilovers
    Whatever basic suspension mods are required to either make it reasonably driveable or not destroying tires with grossly uneven wear.
    Aero only if the car absolutely has to have it to achieve neutral balance (AP1 with same size wheels all around and no rear bump steer kit)
    Car is driven within one second of its ultimate potential at least a handful of laps each time it goes to the track.

    If you have no data, delete the line

    Please copy the format in black text below for your report

    Car
    Model years applicable
    Engine code
    $00000~$00000 Cost for typical complete donor car on craigslist/private party
    Lap time at BW13 CW / weight w/driver/ whp / tire compound

    Engine
    XXX hours Life expectancy for fresh crate motor
    XXX hours Life expectancy for blueprinted race motor
    $0000/XX cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $0000 Cost of replacement new long block/crate motor
    $0000 Cost of healthy used long block
    $000 Other modifications required to survive 40hrs/yr? (oil coolers, forged internals, oversize radiator, etc)
    $00 Oil: number of qts x minimum quality required (5 qts x $3ea= $15)
    $00 Filter

    Cooling
    $000 Radiator, oversize if required
    $000/XX cost of shop labor for radiator/ billable hours
    $000 Engine Oil cooler if required
    $000/XX cost of shop labor for Engine Oil cooler / billable hours
    $000 Trans cooler if required
    $000/XX cost of shop labor Trans cooler / billable hours
    $000 Diff cooler if required
    $000/XX cost of shop labor Diff cooler / billable hours

    Fuel
    $00.00/type Fuel required cost per gallon (91 pump, 100 race, 110 leaded, etc)
    minutes/gallon OR
    minutes/full tank OR
    gallons/hour OR
    miles/gallon

    Suspension
    $00.00 Single adjustable coilovers (what owners actually use, not necessarily cheapest junk on market)
    $0000 Other modifications required?
    $000 alignment
    $000 cornerweight

    Tires
    XXX/XX/XX Size typically used for track use
    XX/XX Brand / model-compound
    XX Life in hours of above tire

    Wheels
    X/X Brand/ construction type (cast, forged, three piece, etc)
    $000 Replacement cost
    $000 Cost if wheels require regular service or straightening

    Brakes
    $000 Front brake pads. List brand and compound
    XX Front pad life in hours of track use
    $000 Rear brake pads. List brand and compound
    XX Rear pad life in hours of track use
    $000 Rotor, front
    XX Front rotor life in hours of track use
    $000 Rotor, rear
    XX Rear rotor life in hours of track use
    XX hours between required brake fluid flush

    Drivetrain
    $00.00 Transmission new or rebuilt
    $0000/XX cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $0000 Clutch
    $0000/XX cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $0000 Differential
    $0000/XX cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours

    Other typical drivetrain mods required that might be unique to the platform
    $00.00 Item
    $00.00/XX cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours

    Bodywork
    $0000 Cost of cheap/salvage replacement tub if wrecked
    $0000 Cost to fabricate and install full cage

    This is relevant to W2W drivers that will typically replace a few body panels a year
    $000 Fender, front
    $000 Door
    $000 Bumper skin, front
    $000 Bumper support, front
    $000 Bumper skin, rear
    $000 Bumper support, front

    Known failure points
    These are items that have been known to sometime fail within 20-100 hours of being installed new. Examples : differential on 90-93 Miata (1), front hub on C5Z (2), rear hub on S2000 (2).

    We’ll establish an arbitrary value to represent the frequency of this part needing to be replaced during 100 hours of track use from new.


    1- It will happen
    2- It may happen
    3-It is unlikely, but a few owners have reported the failure

    Component replacements . Copy and paste if your platform has more than one known failure point
    $0000/XX Item, new replacement / frequency
    $0000/XX Item, used replacement/frequency
    $000/XX cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours

    Here list any relevant notes such as tips and tricks to improve cost effectiveness of the platform, additional metrics like different costs to be regionally vs nationally competitive, etc
    Notes:
    Last edited by emilio700; 07-13-2012 at 09:24 AM.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  2. #2
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Default 90-05 Miata

    Car
    Model years applicable 94-05 Miata
    Engine code B61P,BPZE,BP4W,BPZ3
    $2000-5000 Cost for typical complete donor car on craigslist/private party
    2:07 BW 13CW/2300lbs/125whp/NT01

    Engine
    150hours Life expectancy for fresh crate motor
    150 hours Life expectancy for blueprinted race motor
    $800/8hrs cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $2800 Cost of replacement new long block/crate motor
    $1100 Cost of healthy used long block
    $3/4 qts Oil
    $40 Filter

    Cooling
    $340 Radiator, 2” aluminum required
    $100/1 cost of shop labor for radiator/ billable hours
    $250 Engine Oil cooler if required
    $200/2 cost of shop labor for Engine Oil cooler / billable hours

    Fuel
    $4.60/super unleaded Fuel
    8-9gallons/hour

    Suspension
    $1900 Single adjustable coilovers ( what owners actually use, not necessarily cheapest junk on market)
    $600 sway bars, end links, bushings
    $400 labor for above
    $150 race alignment
    $150 cornerweight

    Tires
    $145 225/45/15 Nitto NT01
    7-9 Life in hours of above tire

    Wheels
    949 Racing/cast
    $190each Replacement cost
    The average Miata racer will replace one or two wheels a year due to bends, regardless of brand or type.

    Brakes
    $130 Front brake pads. Carbotech XP10. Cheaper pads are trickier to modulate and eat rotors but cost about $100
    16 hrs Front pad life in hours of track use
    $120 Rear brake pads. List brand and compound
    30hrs Rear pad life in hours of track use
    $22 Rotor, front
    40 hrs Front rotor life in hours of track use
    $20 Rotor, rear
    60hrs Rear rotor life in hours of track use
    6-10 hours between required brake fluid flush

    Drivetrain
    $250 5 speed, used
    $750 6 speed, used
    $400/4 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $250 Clutch
    $300/3 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $700 Differential
    $200/2 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours

    Other typical drivetrain mods required that might be unique to the platform
    $20.00 clutch slave cylinders are always bad on used Miatas
    $40.00/1 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours

    Bodywork
    $1000 Cost of cheap/salvage replacement tub if wrecked
    $2000-4500 Cost to fabricate and install full cage. We usually pay around $3K on our cars

    This is relevant to W2W drivers that will typically replace a few body panels a year
    $120 Fender, front, new
    $50 Door, used
    $180 Bumper skin, front, new
    $40 Bumper support, front, used
    $140 Bumper skin, rear, new
    $40 Bumper support, front, used

    Known failure points
    1- It will happen
    2- It may happen
    3-It is unlikely, but a few owners have reported the failure

    $120/2 front hub
    $100/1 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours. Our race team mechanics can swap a smoking hot front Miata hub in about 5 minutes.
    $60/2 Cam angle sensor for 99-05 Miata
    $50/3 coil packs 99-00 Miata
    $700/1 diff on 90-93 1.6 engine Miata
    $200/2 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours.
    $60/3 lower ball joint
    $100/1 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours.

    Notes: The OEM black plastic radiators are prone to cracking when they’re old and faded brown. The clutch slave cylinders are almost always bad on high mileage used cars but only cost a few bucks and take 15 minutes to replace. Other than those two things, the cars are near indestructible. The later 99-05 cars with solid lifters will tolerate over revs on downshift a little better than the 90-97 cars with hydraulic lifters.

    Many of the 1.8 Miatas (94-05) came with Torsens. Those are far superior to the open diffs in the base models. If your donor car doesn't already have one, budget $500 or so in parts for a Torsen rear diff and housing.

    Our cars all use our own $2100 Xida coilovers but there are good functional options in the $800-1400 range
    Last edited by emilio700; 07-13-2012 at 09:19 AM.
    Loose Caboose likes this.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    2:07 BW 13CW/23400lbs/125whp/NT01
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    Bad Emillio Bad! If the wives get a whiff of this thread do you know the trouble you will have caused? Do you have any idea how many pairs of shoes and handbags such information could cost HPDE'ers or how many kitchen and bathrooms might get remodeled on the backs of fellow racers?
    hakeem likes this.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Bad Emillio Bad! If the wives get a whiff of this thread do you know the trouble you will have caused? Do you have any idea how many pairs of shoes and handbags such information could cost HPDE'ers or how many kitchen and bathrooms might get remodeled on the backs of fellow racers?
    One of my tags for this thread is CFO
    I am single
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Bad Emillio Bad! If the wives get a whiff of this thread do you know the trouble you will have caused? Do you have any idea how many pairs of shoes and handbags such information could cost HPDE'ers or how many kitchen and bathrooms might get remodeled on the backs of fellow racers?
    The numbers are there. Just don't add them up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Thanks for fixing that, Emilio. A 23,400 lb. Miata? I was afraid you have a REALLY FAT girlfriend in the passenger seat.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    Our roll cage is made from spent uranium fuel rods. We use the Cherenkov radiation to light the interior of the car during night sessions. Another benefit is that the drivers glow in the dark. Makes them handy to use as reading lamps.

  9. #9
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Default Sexy platypus care and feeding

    Spec Miata (california race winning)

    1994-1995
    Engine code: unknown
    $3000 ($2K + $1K top) Cost for typical complete donor car on craigslist/private party
    2:07 / 2350/ 115-125whp / Toyo RA-1 or Hoosier SM6

    Engine
    150 hours Life expectancy for fresh crate motor
    50-100 hours Life expectancy for blueprinted pro motor
    $800/8 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $2500 Cost of replacement new long block/crate motor
    $7000 Cost of replacement new Race Engineering pro motor
    $1000 Cost of healthy used long block
    $120 radiator Other modifications required to survive 40hrs/yr? (oil coolers, forged internals, oversize radiator, etc)
    $60 (4qts $15 each for warranty, change with filter every 5 hours) Oil: number of qts x minimum quality required (5 qts x $3ea= $15)
    $5 Filter (every 5 hours)

    Engine and oil cost per hour: $170

    Cooling
    $120 Radiator, oversize if required
    $100/1 cost of shop labor for radiator/ billable hours
    $40 Radiator screen


    Fuel
    $5.00/type Fuel required cost per gallon 87 octane
    9 minutes/gallon
    Fuel cost per hour $33

    Suspension
    $1400.00 SM suspension
    $400 pro shock revalving
    $100 alignment
    $100 cornerweight

    Tires
    205/50/15 Size typically used for track use
    Toyo/RA-1 3/32nd shave $160 ea
    4 Life in hours of above tire
    or
    Hoosier/SM6 $166 ea
    2.5 Life in hours of above tire

    Tire cost per hour: Hoosier $281, Toyo $170

    Wheels
    D-force/cast
    $130 shipped

    Brakes
    $146 Front brake pads. Carbotech XP10
    7 Front pad life in hours of track use
    $126 Rear brake pads. List brand and compound
    15 Rear pad life in hours of track use
    $20 Rotor, front
    50 Front rotor life in hours of track use
    $20 Rotor, rear
    100 Rear rotor life in hours of track use
    50 hours between required brake fluid flush ATE Super Blue

    Brake cost per hour $30

    Drivetrain
    $1000.00 Transmission (pro) rebuilt
    $100.00 Transmission junkyard, 50 hours life expectancy for 3rd gear synchro
    $400/4 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $80 Clutch lasts lifetime of car
    $400/4 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours
    $700 Differential 4.3 Torsen (-$500 sell 4.1 torsen)
    $200/2 cost of shop labor for above component/ billable hours

    Drivetrain cost per hour $10

    Other typical drivetrain mods required that might be unique to the platform
    Halfshafts (pro) $300

    Bodywork
    $1000 Cost of cheap/salvage replacement tub if wrecked
    $3000 Cost to fabricate and install full cage
    $800 or 8 hours to make seat fit in small cockpit

    This is relevant to W2W drivers that will typically replace a few body panels a year
    $120 Fender, front new
    $100 Door craigslist
    $100 Bumper skin, front craigslist
    $40 Bumper support, front craigslist
    $100 Bumper skin, rear craigslist
    $40 Bumper support, front craigslist
    $100 Hood, craigslist
    $100 Rear Finish Panel
    $500 Quarterpanel repair (cannot be unbolted)
    $100 Custom rattle can paint, 12 cans

    Known failure points
    These are items that have been known to sometime fail within 20-100 hours of being installed new. Examples : differential on 90-93 Miata (1), front hub on C5Z (2), rear hub on S2000 (2).

    We’ll establish an arbitrary value to represent the frequency of this part needing to be replaced during 100 hours of track use from new.

    1- It will happen
    2- It may happen
    3-It is unlikely, but a few owners have reported the failure

    Component replacements . Copy and paste if your platform has more than one known failure point
    Front pro hub (1) $120/10 hours Item, new replacement / frequency
    $100/1 hour
    Rear pro hub (1) $200/20 hours
    $100/1 hour
    Wheel destroyed from car on car violence (1) $130/30 hours
    Fender (1) $130/50 hours
    $100/1 hour

    Repair cost per hour: $45

    Here list any relevant notes such as tips and tricks to improve cost effectiveness of the platform, additional metrics like different costs to be regionally vs nationally competitive, etc
    Notes:
    More R&D needed to win at SCCA runoffs.

    Total platypus care and feeding: $534 per hour
    Last edited by robburgoon; 07-12-2012 at 08:33 PM.
    ucfbrett likes this.

  10. #10
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Ok T1 guys, let's have it.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    I wanna hear spec E30.
    And Porsche cup car
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  12. #12
    Faster than Oli jimt's Avatar
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    A gazillion
    ~ Jim Tway
    Tway Motorsports
    (714) 528-2150
    #57 Pacific Automotive Recycling Center Corvette

    Brought to you by:
    Pacific Automotive Recycling Center
    PA Construction
    American Heritage Performance

  13. #13
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Heh, I use brakes twice as fast as Emilio.

  14. #14
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimt View Post
    A gazillion
    Details you cowards!

  15. #15
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Details you cowards!
    +1

    It's corvettte this and corvette that until the actual costs are discussed. My bet? That you could run exactly two competitive Miatas for the cost of one T1 car.
    ucfbrett likes this.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  16. #16
    Faster than Oli jimt's Avatar
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    lol, not even close.

    Ill post some numbers when I have time. I did a trade at the end of last season. The corvette wasnt that much more too run in consumables.
    ~ Jim Tway
    Tway Motorsports
    (714) 528-2150
    #57 Pacific Automotive Recycling Center Corvette

    Brought to you by:
    Pacific Automotive Recycling Center
    PA Construction
    American Heritage Performance

  17. #17
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimt View Post
    lol, not even close.
    yep, 3 miatas for 1 corvette.

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    Captain Planet tq3z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Heh, I use brakes twice as fast as Emilio.
    That is why he is T3H F4sTer than you.
    Do you understand?

  19. #19
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tq3z View Post
    That is why he is T3H F4sTer than you.
    He runs enduros, I run sprint races, and usually run enduros like sprint races. He practices keeping the brakes and tires on the car, I try to set the car on fire to see if it will somehow lower my lap times.

    Apples and oranges.

    No idea which one of us is currently quicker, that's why I was trying to make that 2012 trackHQ challenge happen.

  20. #20
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    I am curious to see the SE30 expenses either.To be honest,I am ready to pull a trigger on a Miata(SM or PT prepped) to start W2W,but I have all the knowledge and spares for a BMW(E30 particular,but not only).
    So mine looks like not an easy choice.
    Great thread Emilio,thanks for starting it.Most important is,one has to only look at the numbers,and never add them

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