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Thread: Can someone explain how this car is going to turn?

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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    Default Can someone explain how this car is going to turn?

    From the Racer magazine website:

    Q & A: Dan Gurney on Le Mans DeltaWing project - Racer.com

    In the interview, Dan Gurney refers to mid-engine cars taking over Formula 1 and then open-wheel racing in the United States, and makes reference to the delta-wing car being a similar groundbreaking development.

    I have great respect for Dan Gurney and all that he has accomplished, and I know he has a lot of really smart people at AAR working on this car. Maybe I just don't know enough, but I don't understand how this car is going to get through the corners?


    del2_171826.jpg

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    If it works in the computer it MUST work in real life right? lol
    katc10 likes this.

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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    I've hated this car from the first time I saw it. I hope I never see them race. I don't have any real reasons for my disdain, but I'll probably stick to it.
    99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    I'll take a wild guess at it (warning, heavy BS content). Let's say you have a rear engine rear drive car with a ton of rear weight bias. To start with you need much bigger tires in the back to help the heavy rear stick. The longer you make the nose, the less weight will be on the nose, and the less tire it will need.

    Here's where the horse**** gets thick: What if the longer your nose is, the more "leverage" the front tires have to turn the "weight on a stick" that the car is?

    I'd like to think that a longer nose makes a car harder to turn, not easier, but I'm not sure if that's still true if you have a really wacky weight distribution.


    Just to disagree with Eric, I like it and want to watch it race. I'm not sure I want to race against it though
    Last edited by robburgoon; 12-02-2011 at 10:22 AM.

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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    Well, it is more difficult for longer cars to change direction, but they are more stable at high speed. Thus the short wheelbase on sports cars and the long wheelbase on salt flats racers. When Acura entered ALMS racing, it's big push was to put equal-size wheels/tires at each cornerórather than smaller frontsóso that it would have more grip in the turns and be able to carry more speed through them.

    But this thing flies in the face of all that. I just can't help but think the delta wing car would exhibit monstrous understeer, particularly without any downforce enhancements on the front.

    I am looking forward to LeMans 2012 when it is supposed to debut. So, Rob, don't enter LeMans this year.

    I have to admit the car is kind of hard on the eyes.

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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    Oh, and welcome to TrackHQ, Rizzant.

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    Member Steve35's Avatar
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    Dan sat down with the Deltawing designer and tried to punch holes in the the concept. When he couldn't, he gave his blessing. Now I wish I heard the questions and answers!

    Project 56 - DeltaWing Le Mans 2012 - YouTube

    Steve Coe

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    Gearhead gixxer_drew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    Well, it is more difficult for longer cars to change direction, but they are more stable at high speed. Thus the short wheelbase on sports cars and the long wheelbase on salt flats racers. When Acura entered ALMS racing, it's big push was to put equal-size wheels/tires at each cornerórather than smaller frontsóso that it would have more grip in the turns and be able to carry more speed through them.

    But this thing flies in the face of all that. I just can't help but think the delta wing car would exhibit monstrous understeer, particularly without any downforce enhancements on the front.

    I am looking forward to LeMans 2012 when it is supposed to debut. So, Rob, don't enter LeMans this year.

    I have to admit the car is kind of hard on the eyes.
    This has more to do with weight distribution and load sensitivity than anything else. Basically if you have control over your weight distribution you can increase total grip by optimizing it for your tire distribution so they were able to have more total tire if they could leverage rear tires in the front. You have to keep it in the heat window and you wont do it with 65% rear weight and a square tire sizing. So there are lots of associated problems with the larger front. It meant they had to achieve more forward weight dist with a low minimum weight (little to no ballast), which also meant more forward aero load and all of that within the rules that are favorable to rear down. Thats what they had to do to win against the diesels that had pretty serious rule breaks compared to gas. The ARX's development was impressive. Many companies develop chassis for LMP classes, nobody could get close to the diesels.

    Delta wing is an aero thing, pure function on aero is often ugly. Not sure what the issue you are thinking would be with the vehicle dynamics?

    The point i think they are trying to make is a valid one that we have our heads so far up our asses in terms of car's having to be a certain way that we are giving up limitless possibilities in terms of function. 150MPG cars are not that tough if you throw away the rules for trunk capacity and comfortably fitting 9 fat dudes with big gulp slurpees.
    Last edited by gixxer_drew; 12-02-2011 at 03:18 PM.
    Andrew M Brilliant
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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer_drew View Post

    The point i think they are trying to make is a valid one that we have our heads so far up our asses in terms of car's having to be a certain way that we are giving up limitless possibilities in terms of function. 150MPG cars are not that tough if you throw away the rules for trunk capacity and comfortably fitting 9 fat dudes with big gulp slurpees.
    And let's not forget crash standards, which are responsible for the lion's share of weight gain in modern cars. My wife had a 2004 Audi A4, which I felt was a pretty small car, and it weighed 4,000 pounds. I was stunned when I first read its weight, and it had plastic door skins.

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    Senior Member 0.o slow 1.6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    From the Racer magazine website:

    Maybe I just don't know enough, but I don't understand how this car is going to get through the corners?

    Turn and pray.
    Milkshake!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Senior Member pucsicsal's Avatar
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    They should have at least painted it black

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    Senior Member Johnny_Se7en's Avatar
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    Clutch in, turn, e-brake, gas and dump clutch. This car looks like it should be going for a land speed records and not turning corners.
    If nothing happens and there is no one around why did it not happen?

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    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
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    What I don't understand -- but will accept for now -- is how you can have a reasonable amount of front suspension and stiffness with that narrow front end. And bouncing like a low-rider down the Mulsanne seems ... well... not good?

    Steve

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    It's a dragster. End of story.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    Senior Member markspd6's Avatar
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    if it had some handle bars, it would remind me of my big wheel growing up.. that didnt handle so bad..

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    Gearhead gixxer_drew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLevin View Post
    What I don't understand -- but will accept for now -- is how you can have a reasonable amount of front suspension and stiffness with that narrow front end. And bouncing like a low-rider down the Mulsanne seems ... well... not good?

    Steve
    Because you dont need it when there is no weight there and no weight transfer to there. It's the kind of thing where you think about it and your like no way that will work but you think about it more and you realize it could totally work and the end goal is an aero efficiency way beyond anything else out there. Thats a big deal at le mans. Its interesting to see if it works and how well.
    Last edited by gixxer_drew; 12-02-2011 at 09:32 PM.
    Andrew M Brilliant
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    Member Steve35's Avatar
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    56.jpg

    I just got this from AAR

    Steve Coe

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