+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26
Like Tree23Likes

Thread: California track cars trending....S2K, Evo, Miata, STI, 86 to muscle cars

  1. #1
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,904
    Liked
    2533 times

    Default California track cars trending....S2K, Evo, Miata, STI, 86 to muscle cars

    Last few years, California favorite track car treand seems to have shifted from Miata, S2000, Evo, STI, etc... to Mustang, Camaro and Vette....
    (Porsche and BMW numbers haven't changed much. Snobs will always only buy snob cars )

    California is always an import car thing, especially for track. just few years ago, Miata, S2000, Evo, STI dominates. This last Sunday (granted it was an ACS event), quick glance (may be some were hiding) saw a couple of S2000, 2 Miata (not counting SuperMiata w2w race cars), 2 Evo, zero STI. But I saw ~12 Mustang, ~15 Camaro, ~20 Vettes (there was a Corvette Challenge the day before).
    Even the more popular and new 86 cars were just a few......

    you can tell that most of Mustang and Camaro are new to HPDE, as very few were in advanced group. It is great that HPDE is bringing newcomers to the sport.

    I am not sure where this trend is sustaining. Mustang / Camaro / Vette have high consumable. As those drivers gets better and better, not sure if they can afford the sport and stay for more. The cars are super fast, sub 2 minute (ACS) is easy even for a noob.....I am a bit uncomfortable with this notion. Spec Miata is right around 2 minute, and have cage, race seat, harness, nets, race suit. These newcomer in t-shirt and short are breaking 1:50 (decent ones) and hammering 150+mph down the front straight.....
    S1 Supermiata - 220whp
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350R
    03 Miata Club Sport
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S
    Beck 550 Spyder

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    841
    Liked
    278 times

    Default

    Late model Corvettes have always been good track cars, especially the C5s.

    I can't speak for the newer Camaros but since the introduction of the S197-generation Mustang in 2005, the Mustangs have been an "easy button" for track cars. They're tough, reliable, affordable, have lots of aftermarket support, are fast, and handle surprisingly well. The new S550-gen Mustangs are even better.

    I think what you're seeing reflects the realization by many drivers that newer domestics have upped their game significantly while newer imports such as Honda and Nissan have fallen behind.
    Force McCocken likes this.

  3. #3
    Senior Member JulioG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    130
    Liked
    64 times

    Default

    86 / BRZ will become more popular as used prices keep going down, while S2000 in decent condition become harder and harder to find.

    Muscle cars are great, but it costs more money to track a 3800lb car than a 2800lb one :P
    MikeColangelo likes this.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Gainesville, GA
    Posts
    155
    Liked
    23 times

    Default

    Funny you mention that. On my last day at Road Atlanta, a novice driver managed to flip his challenger coming out of turn 7 (probably the most innocuous corner on the track). Apparently his attire consisted of flip flops and shorts. Had an interesting drivers meeting after that incident regarding clothing.
    '09 rx8 sport

  5. #5
    RaceTape Ninja Force McCocken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Roswell, GA
    Posts
    1,550
    Liked
    812 times

    Default

    The Road Atlanta milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. I love/hate RA for that. I love it in a Miata, sifting through muscle car traffic, then hate losing all ground after T7.

    I'm glad to see new variants and paricipation at HPDE, but a good portion of them aren't really familiar with the conduct. I spend some of my time in lower groups as "quality control" to look for those who aren't letting more agile cars by, or other issues. A lot of newb musclecar drivers assume they belong in yellow or red group, but we have new ways to vet them, including a few hotshoe drivers in 'lesser' cars.

    The Flip Flop Guy is now legendary. I understand that guy has a scarlet letter on his motorsportreg.com account from that. I think all the HPDE companies in this area use that now, so he's sort of screwed. I have seen the photographic evidence of his results, and an accurate retelling of the closed door meeting he had after the incident, I cannot share them unfortunately.
    Yer pal,
    Force

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    841
    Liked
    278 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JulioG View Post
    86 / BRZ will become more popular as used prices keep going down, while S2000 in decent condition become harder and harder to find.

    Muscle cars are great, but it costs more money to track a 3800lb car than a 2800lb one :P
    Agreed. I've given up on S2Ks. Wonderful cars but just way too expensive a clean one. I can see a lot more BRZ/FRS twins getting converted into track and race cars in the next few years as they depreciate further.

  7. #7
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    3,768
    Liked
    2592 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeColangelo View Post
    I think what you're seeing reflects the realization by many drivers that newer domestics have upped their game significantly while newer imports such as Honda and Nissan have fallen behind.
    Agree. This is what I see too. I have recently lamented that the Japanese equivalent of a SS 1LE or GT/ GT350 does not exist. Sure some Asian cars can be modified and upgraded but none.. none, can be driven straight from the dealer to the track and run a 20 minute session in 100 heat by an expert driver.
    Force McCocken likes this.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  8. #8
    likes to left foot brake. passmenow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    San Diego.
    Posts
    371
    Liked
    99 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    you can tell that most of Mustang and Camaro are new to HPDE, as very few were in advanced group. It is great that HPDE is bringing newcomers to the sport.

    As those drivers gets better and better
    The cars are super fast, sub 2 minute (ACS) is easy even for a noob.....I am a bit uncomfortable with this notion.
    I think repeatedly modern nannies are helping to bring new unwitting muscle car owners out to the track.
    How many times a lap is the nanny activated, how many times a lap does that driver even know the nanny saved him.
    Nannies have a strong appetite and they create heat, consumables go up.

    Agree at what point do these cars exceed the safety design of themselves or the track.
    Unless the track was designed for production cars, no fuel cell, 3 point belts, airbags and 165mph.
    Most new car owners are naive to the layers of safety in our race cars and driver equipment.
    ucfbrett likes this.
    74 911 RSR+.
    88 Imsa Camaro.
    93 Imsa Camaro.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    844
    Liked
    150 times

    Default

    People track newer cars. S2k is too old now. Last time I owned an S2k was in 2006. They are so old that they are now collector's items.

    We will see where the new Toyota Supra will fit. If they price it under $50k then it will be extremely popular. It's sure to have a massive aftermarket.

    For me a car is not a track car unless you can track it straight from the dealer with just a set of track brake pads. A lot of HPDE guys have one car they track and daily.
    MR2 Spyder 2zz turbo
    Mazda RX7 FD
    Porsche 911E

  10. #10
    Senior Member CharleyH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    412
    Liked
    243 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by passmenow View Post

    Agree at what point do these cars exceed the safety design of themselves or the track.
    Unless the track was designed for production cars, no fuel cell, 3 point belts, airbags and 165mph.
    Most new car owners are naive to the layers of safety in our race cars and driver equipment.
    This is a very important point. Many street cars are capable of faster speeds than some race cars and many of the owners don’t seem to understand the risk they are dealing with. For example the last time I was at Daytona there were people doing 170mph around the high banks in cars that are showroom stock with no safety equipment other than a helmet. There was even a minivan driving on the high banks... crazy.

    Charley
    bellwilliam and passmenow like this.

  11. #11
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    7,009
    Liked
    1495 times

    Default

    I think the cheaper orgs attract more Japanese cars. Pricier orgs get you pricier cars.

  12. #12
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,904
    Liked
    2533 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyH View Post
    There was even a minivan driving on the high banks... crazy.

    Charley
    and passing Spec Miata ?
    craZee, SteveLevin and CharleyH like this.
    S1 Supermiata - 220whp
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350R
    03 Miata Club Sport
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S
    Beck 550 Spyder

  13. #13
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,904
    Liked
    2533 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    I think the cheaper orgs attract more Japanese cars. Pricier orgs get you pricier cars.
    lately, I've been to Xtremespeed events more than I care to admit. while certainly more imports, Muscle cars are also dominant there. another reason is Streets attracts more lower hp cars.....
    S1 Supermiata - 220whp
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350R
    03 Miata Club Sport
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S
    Beck 550 Spyder

  14. #14
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,904
    Liked
    2533 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Force McCocken View Post
    A lot of newb musclecar drivers assume they belong in yellow or red group, but we have new ways to vet them, including a few hotshoe drivers in 'lesser' cars
    I hate to tell you this, as I like passing noob driver in high hp cars also. but the fact is, today's muscle cars are so fast, that the best drivers here in a stock powered Miata is going to need to point by a crappy driver in a Mustang/Camaro/Vette as they catches the Miata (insert 86, S2000, etc) on most tracks.

    I just saw a video of a C7 z06, missing every apex by 20ft, and did a 1:45 at ACS he is gonna lap national SM champion twice in a session
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 02-21-2018 at 08:32 PM.
    S1 Supermiata - 220whp
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350R
    03 Miata Club Sport
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S
    Beck 550 Spyder

  15. #15
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    7,009
    Liked
    1495 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    lately, I've been to Xtremespeed events more than I care to admit. while certainly more imports, Muscle cars are also dominant there. another reason is Streets attracts more lower hp cars.....
    I don't bother with streets anymore, I see a good number of imports at big willow, but the numbers seem to be declining somewhat.

  16. #16
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    by the beach
    Posts
    2,088
    Liked
    1720 times

    Default

    IMO, the problem with non domestics is the inability to turn off incestuous nanny systems incongruous with track work. Domestics are actively attacked by the aftermarket to delete things like tpms that sense low race tires pressures and send the car into limp mode. Then you look at domestics like new mustang gt with performance pack for under 35k and it is near impossible to beat the performance per dollar. That is why the C5 vette is turning on. When new $50k. Now under $10k and can build a spec corvette from soups to nuts for 20k, the vette is near impossible to beat.

  17. #17
    RaceTape Ninja Force McCocken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Roswell, GA
    Posts
    1,550
    Liked
    812 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I hate to tell you this, as I like passing noob driver in high hp cars also. but the fact is, today's muscle cars are so fast, that the best drivers here in a stock powered Miata is going to need to point by a crappy driver in a Mustang/Camaro/Vette as they catches the Miata (insert 86, S2000, etc) on most tracks.

    I just saw a video of a C7 z06, missing every apex by 20ft, and did a 1:45 at ACS he is gonna lap national SM champion twice in a session
    No doubt!

    Among some admin and instructors I organize events with, there are real concerns about how fast a lot of these cars are going on the back of Road Atlanta...with stock safety equipment. Closing speed is something I'm finding myself discussing more and more often as an instructor with musclecar participants. Instructed a BRZ/FRS HPDE last season, nice cars, but I was surprised how many were throwing codes throughout the day.

    There are on-going discussions about some of the nannies on BMWs that could be dangerous in HPDE environments.
    Last edited by Force McCocken; 02-22-2018 at 11:39 AM.
    Yer pal,
    Force

  18. #18
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    by the beach
    Posts
    2,088
    Liked
    1720 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I just saw a video of a C7 z06, missing every apex by 20ft, and did a 1:45 at ACS he is gonna lap national SM champion twice in a session
    This is what I don't understand about a particular group who will put a low laptime in the Red group. Red should be about experience not laptime. In the open passing group you want an experienced driver around you not the 20ft guy with low laptime in 600hp track weapon. And for all you hot shoe experienced guys who happen to talk to the 20 footer for our own safety don't tell them how you drive with the traction control off. WE just aren't ready for that.

  19. #19
    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ventura, Calif.
    Posts
    5,646
    Liked
    2363 times

    Default

    I've seen this, too. At the NASA Arizona event at Chuckwalla a week ago, I couldn't believe all the S550 Mustangs heading out in the HPDE groups. One after another.

  20. #20
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    3,768
    Liked
    2592 times

    Default

    We begged the auto industry for super fast track ready cars

    We got them

    Idiots bought them too

    What price freedom
    bawareca and Schmoe Money like this.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts