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Thread: BMW M4 (lack of) Counter Steer Video

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    Default BMW M4 (lack of) Counter Steer Video

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Accelerating in a straight line can be challenging.

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    Senior Member JulioG's Avatar
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    M4 owner responded on bimmerpost:

    Hey guys,

    It was my car that was involved and a mistake was made. There were no intentions of doing anything out of the norm. In fact, you'll notice in the video that the car was going very slowly in front of the crowd. This was intentional because we've all watched too many YouTube videos of this sort of thing happening and wanted to make sure that nobody would get hurt should anything unexpected happen. Once the car was past the crowd the accelerator was pushed in a straight-line as I have done many times in the past when the rear snapped violently. The car was going ~30mph at that time. The car has been driven for 4700 miles and has been driven with DSC off many times including in the rain and never has the car snapped so violently just from accelerating. I chalk it up to several factors including cold temps (low 40s), cold tires and incorrect psi (more on that later) and of course driver error. More judicious use of the throttle should have been exercised. MDM mode was not used because MDM is too quick to intervene and cuts power prematurely (or maybe not).

    Usually when the rear breaks loose, it does so progressively and steering correction will suffice. However, you can see in the video that the front tires are turned slightly to the right indicating opposite lock was put on the steering trying to prevent the car from doing a complete 180 however there wasn't enough real estate to counter how violently it snapped - though admittedty the gravity of the snap required immediate full oppo lock which was misread. I'm not sure why some are saying that no steering input was made because it was - one could argue it should have been sooner but again usually a little wiggle just takes small steering input and power through not a full-on immediate opposite lock as was needed in such a big snap - to me it actually seemed like it was happening in slow-mo although the vid makes it seem like it happened so fast. As the car started to correct it became apparent that there was no way out except over the curb which is where I put on the brakes and tried to straightline the curb as much as possible to avoid hitting the curb at an angle which would cause a lot of damage and potentiality flip/roll the car.

    I've driven many high hp rwd cars including vipers, porsches, corvettes, and formula cars and I've graduated from formula racing schools and have years of training in advanced car control and plenty of track time. Heck I remember day one of Formula school, half of the first day was spent on the skid pad learning how to keep a car from spinning if you lose traction. Maybe I need a refresher since it's been awhile and I've been driving AWD Audis for the past few years. Some of those other RWD cars I mentioned will snap fiercely and you have to be on extremely high alert, however my experience with the M4 has been that it tends to not snap so viciously in a straight line - but this time I was wrong. I would caution anyone thinking that it can't happen to them (count me as previously one of those) that anyone can make a mistake. I'm thankful that nobody was injured from such a mistake. Surprisingly, the car seems to be driving just fine with the only damage being the right plastic guard underneath the bumper which can be seen in the video. Surprising I know.

    I mentioned earlier that I had incorrect PSI - let me explain. My PSI was low, so I inflated it a bit with a pump with an analog tire guage which of course is very imprecise compared to a digital gauge. I noticed that my right tire pressure was 1.5psi off of my left when viewing the PSI from the BMW onboard digital gauge (you can only do this while driving). However, as my car had been pulling to the right from day 1 of delivery (there's a big thread of many complaining about that on these forums). Miraculously, the car drifted to the right to a lesser extent with the right tire PSI being slightly higher than the left and so I was playing around with the idea of keeping it that way for a short time- however I knew that I needed to put the PSI equally across both tires but I just failed to do that before going to the meet. I have no idea if unequal PSI left to right contributed to the right rear spinning so differently than the left.

    Anyways, I know I'll be ridiculed and called an idiot (and rightfully so) but I think many of you also know that I didn't do anything intentionally out of the ordinary or unsafe. I'm not sure I was even trying to show off as acceleration happened when the car was past the crowd and it's not like a powerslide or burnout or anything of that sort occurred.

    I also think the M4 is a fine car and I have no complaints about the amount of power or torque or tire width or grip or anything. In fact, the whole reason I got the M4 is because it's not AWD and I like the rear moving around a bit. Mistakes happen and I've learned a lesson - and from now on will keep DSC on when driving around because there's too much at stake to make a mistake while driving - no matter how good or bad of a driver you are. Thanks for hearing me out. It certainly has been a humbling experience.

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    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    I was going to say something, but that humble response has stayed my self righteous hand. I'm sure much humiliation and embarrassment was had.
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    His only mistake was not continuing left on the other side of the divider and pulling it off as intentional...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    Accelerating in a straight line can be challenging.
    What do you know about acceleration ? You drive a Miata

    In super cars (I know anything over 200whp seems super cars to Miata drivers, but we are talking about real cars here) Even 1.5psi low of tire will cause a powerful to snap !!
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 01-05-2015 at 09:41 PM.
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    This kid ain't a Fin!

    An interesting counter example of well executed counter steer.

    Not Finland, but you will get the idea:



    Who Needs an SUV? Formula Race Car Tackles the Snow-Covered Nürburgring
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    Asshat indeed. Off topic, but I have been buying the car magazine hype about the M4 and test drove one at South Bay BMW last week. You can't tell much from a dealer short test drive around the block, other than the car is noisy due to the exhaust sounds being amplified by the stereo (what a bunch of BS), and that I absolutely hated the flappy paddle dual clutch automatic. $80,000- for this car, I don't think so . . .
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    J. Tyler, tq3z, Pure EvoIX and 1 others like this.
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    ^ I feel like throwing up.



    Bro do you even counter?
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    Miata drivers talking about straight line acceleration, Evo drivers talking about counter steer, what's next?!

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    RX7 drivers talking about reliability?
    Too far fetched, even comparing to the other two...

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    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    His turbo kicked in and he went full retard.

    Turn off electronic LSD and hitting boost ends with said retard driving down the wrong side of the road.

    I don't blame BMWCCA for not allowing drivers to turn of all the driver aids.
    Last edited by Silversprint; 01-05-2015 at 11:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Asshat indeed. Off topic, but I have been buying the car magazine hype about the M4 and test drove one at South Bay BMW last week. You can't tell much from a dealer short test drive around the block, other than the car is noisy due to the exhaust sounds being amplified by the stereo (what a bunch of BS), and that I absolutely hated the flappy paddle dual clutch automatic. $80,000- for this car, I don't think so . . .
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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Caboose View Post
    This kid ain't a Fin!

    An interesting counter example of well executed counter steer.

    Not Finland, but you will get the idea:



    Who Needs an SUV? Formula Race Car Tackles the Snow-Covered Nürburgring
    Braking is a lil bit heartbreaking I was wondering what set-up is he using- wet or dry

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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post

    Like the color ?
    You can upgrade to metallic orange now
    Last edited by bawareca; 01-05-2015 at 10:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Asshat indeed. Off topic, but I have been buying the car magazine hype about the M4 and test drove one at South Bay BMW last week. You can't tell much from a dealer short test drive around the block, other than the car is noisy due to the exhaust sounds being amplified by the stereo (what a bunch of BS), and that I absolutely hated the flappy paddle dual clutch automatic. $80,000- for this car, I don't think so . . .
    You have been spoiled by your classic, time tested keepers.
    Last edited by Loose Caboose; 01-05-2015 at 11:56 PM.

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    Intentionally deleted.
    Last edited by Loose Caboose; 01-05-2015 at 11:27 PM.

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