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Thread: Bmw m4

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    Old timer craZee's Avatar
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    Default Bmw m4

    So one of my friends tossed me the keys to his 3 day old M4 yesterday to take for a drive. I am not a BMW guy, so I don't have much to compare it to, but the car will flat set you back in your seat. I guess during it's break in period it is in partial limp mode and will become even faster.

    The steer by wire felt fine although provides no feedback. I couldn't figure out why the engine noises were so loud until my friend explained that they pipe them through the stereo speakers. I wonder if you can get a radio delete, with only speakers installed LOL


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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Steer by wire or electrical PS?

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    Old timer craZee's Avatar
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    I was told no mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the steering components. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    If that's the case, I sure hope that there are also like 6 backup systems for when the thing fails.. like F16 fly by wire.

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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    If that's the case, I sure hope that there are also like 6 backup systems for when the thing fails.. like F16 fly by wire.
    The throttle is not as important as steering, but since the C5 era Corvettes they are all throttle by wire and they have three redundant systems running that throttle. If it senses anything wrong it goes into severe limp mode.
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    I saw an M4 on the street for the first time yesterday. It was white with a carbon fiber roof. Great looking car, and it is available with a stick a clutch pedal. But steer by wire is a bit scary . . .
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    In BMW's I have driven alot, my daughter has a 328i standard steering we all love. Wife has X3 with electronic steering. There is really no difference except lighter steering effort in X3. I have driven M's with electric steering not really a big difference. So far the X3's electronic steering I have lived trouble free 2 years.

    What I really hate are poseur cars. I will never own a Lambo. There is nothing more poseur than piping in exhaust noise into your speakers. If that feature can't be deleted I would remove that M BMW from cars I would buy. That is just not acceptable. I hope others feel the same way and just say NO to those cars.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    CraZee wasn't talking about elect assist, if I'm reading this right, there's no steering column -
    Quote Originally Posted by craZee View Post
    I was told no mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the steering components. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
    So the steering wheel is basically a position sensor that moves some sort of a motor on the steering rack, which is why I made the comment that if this is indeed true, I hope there's some backup system in case that position sensor fails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    CraZee wasn't talking about elect assist, if I'm reading this right, there's no steering column -

    So the steering wheel is basically a position sensor that moves some sort of a motor on the steering rack, which is why I made the comment that if this is indeed true, I hope there's some backup system in case that position sensor fails.
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    Senior Member JulioG's Avatar
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    The M4 has electric power steering, not steering by wire (thank god). The previous M3 had hydraulic assisted steering.

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    Old timer craZee's Avatar
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    So the steering wheel is basically a position sensor that moves some sort of a motor on the steering rack, which is why I made the comment that if this is indeed true, I hope there's some backup system in case that position sensor fails.[/QUOTE]

    This means there really could be a "back seat driver" LOL

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    The M4 has electronic power steering, not steering by wire (thank god).
    Thanks for clearing that up. My 2005 Honda S2000 has electric power steering, which works great. Back to being interested in the M4. BTW, I saw a new M5 in a parking lot today. Damn nice car . . .
    Last edited by Richard EVO; 09-24-2014 at 08:55 PM.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with elect PS, there are plenty of cars with elect assist that feel better than some cars with hydraulic systems.

    The F16 reference BTW is real, there is no mechanical linkage between the stick and pedals to any of the aerodynamic control surfaces, it's all fly by wire and has multiple backup systems IIRC in case of failure.

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    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    On the m4 the steering feel can be changed. It has 3 settings comfort, sport, and sport+.
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    The more likely and dangerous scenario with modern cars and drive by wire is security. Tesla has been hacked and it already has a network connection. Automotive software security is probably equivalent to computers in the 80s.

    If you do settle on a car with an automatic transmission, be sure to get one with Adaptive Cruise Control. It's a game changer. Looks like it's avaiable from BMW on 5 series and up but I'm not sure about M cars.
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    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    If you do settle on a car with an automatic transmission, be sure to get one with Adaptive Cruise Control. It's a game changer. Looks like it's avaiable from BMW on 5 series and up but I'm not sure about M cars.
    Why would you "settle on a car with an automatic transmission" if a manual gearbox and clutch pedal is available, as they are in the new M4? Don't be an idiot . . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Why would you "settle on a car with an automatic transmission" if a manual gearbox and clutch pedal is available, as they are in the new M4? Don't be an idiot . . .
    Oh... I don't know... maybe someone who has foot/ankle mobility issues might prefer a performance automatic vs a manual gearbox?

    I mean. It's been know to happen, right? Physical limitations (or declining physical fitness) as people get older?

    I was pretty much forced to drive an automatic after wrecking my ankles years ago.
    Eventually with enough physical therapy and improved fitness levels (read weight loss plus strength training/etc) I was finally able to operate a clutch pedal about a year and a half ago.
    Hello Miata.

    Would I have bought an automatic Miata? NO.
    Did I find it heartbreaking that I couldn't buy an STI back in 2008? Absolutely.
    Did I enjoy my slush-box paddle shift Mini Cooper S? Yes! Downshift on the fly at the track... and let the transmission ECU upshift as required between the corners.
    The ONLY issues I had with the car was that it was impossible to over-ride the factory upshift points... and the fact that there wasn't a LSD available for the automatic unless I wanted to pony up a minimum of ten (10) orders with... OSG or one of the other folks.

    Was the transmission a consumable item? Yup. Costly at almost 7k for a replacement.
    Did I forgo an EVO with DSG? Yes, due to fear of it being more than 7k for a replacement unit.
    Did I pass up an R32 as well with DSG? Yup.

    Sometimes people have to make best with the cards they're dealt. I'm sure you of all people can understand that... Mr. "I can't get in and out of low riding sports cars, what options do I have", can't you?

    So many broken records here on TrackHQ... kind of hit my breaking point tonight.

    Must be all that wrenching on my Miata to get it ready for the track this weekend.
    Hope you enjoy yours... and your clutch pedals.
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    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    The more likely and dangerous scenario with modern cars and drive by wire is security. Tesla has been hacked and it already has a network connection. Automotive software security is probably equivalent to computers in the 80s.

    If you do settle on a car with an automatic transmission, be sure to get one with Adaptive Cruise Control. It's a game changer. Looks like it's avaiable from BMW on 5 series and up but I'm not sure about M cars.
    I had this way back in my 2007 Lexus. It pretty neat when the cars slows down to a stop and can accelerate back up to the set cruise control speed as the traffic in front slows. It's laser guided
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    Senior Member vantagesc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silversprint View Post
    On the m4 the steering feel can be changed. It has 3 settings comfort, sport, and sport+.
    Companies are still learning how to tune electric power steering. I read an interesting article on these systems that was posted over on Rennlist.

    With a conventional steering system, the steering weights up a bit when you are cornering hard, and then as the tires lose grip, the steering becomes light again (generally speaking). With the nature of these electric systems, sometimes you don't feel any of that. It's just one constant force. So whether you tune the steering to be light, medium, or heavy, it's the CHANGE IN WEIGHT while driving that gives you steering "feel".

    This feel can be programmed into the system, but it will take some time for companies to figure out to do it properly. For example, there have been no mechanical changes from the 991 Carrera S to the 991 GT3, but the latter has much better steering feel due to change in programming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vantagesc View Post
    With the nature of these electric systems, sometimes you don't feel any of that. It's just one constant force. So whether you tune the steering to be light, medium, or heavy, it's the CHANGE IN WEIGHT while driving that gives you steering "feel".

    This feel can be programmed into the system, but it will take some time for companies to figure out to do it properly.
    I'm not sure I buy this so I went out in my wife's X3 to feel the electronic steering. Note that the X3 is not a performance BMW like an M3 so anything positive I say about the X3 must be better in an M which we all expect to be a driver's car.

    What I notice is a very stiff chassis which transmits just about anything on the road. I easily feel bots dots or pavement cracks over an 1" wide with a little bump like a tree root bulging the asphalt and the X3 ride is more luxury soft. The stiffness of the chassis transmits to the butt through seat quite nicely and you also feel that solidness transmit to your hands via wheel attached to chassis even if it is not connected to the front wheels. I have not looked to see exactly how the front wheels are attached if any to the steering wheel. What is missing might be the feedback of the front tire being deflected like if you bang a curb or hit a pothole but you can feel the pothole or the curb. So my initial thinking is that perhaps you can be faster with electronic steering in that you react to the what the chassis is telling you and not a head fake from just the front end. So if you get to a part of the road that with normal steering would jerk the wheel in your hand you will react to the jerk when maybe you should only react if the chassis needs correction. This means you can be lighter on the wheel with your hands and let your a$$-o-meter tell you what to do. I have no idea if any of this drivel means anything at all. But driving both is more of a wash than really significant. What is more significant is to delete "active sound".

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