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Thread: Black Boxes in Cars

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    Senior Member Neocataboi's Avatar
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    Default Black Boxes in Cars

    I know we've spoke about this on other threads, but how do you guys feel about this?

    I mean it can clear a lot of things up, and i can see the advantages this can bring to First Response. But as Track day enthusiasts, what do you think would happen if we were to take one of our cars to the track? Do you think the "sudden braking. and swerving" would make the black box go crazy?

    I think i'm going to make a push to try my new car this next 13' model year. I don't feel comfortable with this. Reminds me too much of Progessive's "Snap Shot" program where they install a recording device to your OBD port and set the insurance rates "based on your 'great driving habits'"

    Feds Requiring 'Black Boxes' in All Motor Vehicles | Threat Level | Wired.com

    Think i;m being paranoid about this?

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    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    Car companies have to protect themselves against bad drivers who crash their cars then try to sue them. If Toyota had black boxes in all their cars it would have been a lot easier to see if any of those unintended acceleration lawsuits were legitimate.
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    Senior Member racebronco2's Avatar
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    I remember a certaim new Camaro at Buttonwillow. He went off track at the bus stop, went back on track but where he entered the paved road was several inches above the dirt, when the front tires hit the airbags went off. ON-STAR came on in the car and asked if he was alright, he proceeded to drive the car to the pits and then to the street outside of the track, Don't know what happened after that.

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    Rookie CentralCoaster's Avatar
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    In other words, you only own 99% of that new car, and you paid more for the luxury. I'm guessing they don't ask your permission before using that data against you.

    Yes you are being paranoid and rightfully so IMO. It may not be an issue now, but its a slippery slope.

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, having the government spy on my driving seems like a dangerous precedent. On the other hand, more precise prosecution and blame when one of the many asshat drivers in LA causes an accident would be most welcomed.

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    As I understand it, the data belongs to the vehicle owner. But I'm not really sure what that means if you get sued over a car accident and the other side demands inspection of the data.
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    Senior Member Johnny_Se7en's Avatar
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    Wouldn't that be a violation of the 4th and 5th amendments?
    If nothing happens and there is no one around why did it not happen?

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    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Se7en View Post
    Wouldn't that be a violation of the 4th and 5th amendments?

    Lawyers have been backdooring the Constitution for years. Wait until they finish with your Second Amendment "right to bear arms." The real fun for us will begin when the black box talks to the ECU and says you are having too much fun as in traction control you can't turn off like you can today. We are lucky to have TC, competition modes, and all nannies off modes. That will end because the fun police will mandate it for our own good.

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    Senior Member Johnny_Se7en's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Lawyers have been backdooring the Constitution for years. Wait until they finish with your Second Amendment "right to bear arms." The real fun for us will begin when the black box talks to the ECU and says you are having too much fun as in traction control you can't turn off like you can today. We are lucky to have TC, competition modes, and all nannies off modes. That will end because the fun police will mandate it for our own good.
    More people have died in motor vehicle accidents then by guns, yet I don't see people screaming to take away cars. If you applied the anti gun lobby logic to motor vehicles anyone with more than 4 cylinders or 200 bhp would have an assault weapon. The next step with all this is to electronically collect the data and send you a ticket or the police.

    http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s1105.pdf
    http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s0310.pdf
    Last edited by Johnny_Se7en; 12-26-2012 at 09:31 PM.
    If nothing happens and there is no one around why did it not happen?

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    Rookie CentralCoaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Se7en View Post
    Wouldn't that be a violation of the 4th and 5th amendments?
    But if it saves only one life.... The TSA and border patrol have been violating our 4th amendment for years.

    Ownership of the data is not well defined, and varies by state. In CA, consent from the owner is required except by court order, or for a dealership to "diagnose" (aka void your warranty) when you take it in for repairs. And the feds are going to require it in all new cars by 2014. I wonder how long it will take before I can't get affordable insurance without putting one in my old cars.

    http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/12/07/black-boxes-in-cars-raise-privacy-concerns


    Speaking of nanny controls, check out this thread on guys trying to track their C6 vettes with tire pressure sensors, and the lengths they have gone to. If it wasn't so sad it'd be hilarious. Totally and permanently removing traction control and active handling - Corvette Forum

    advice on track wheels w/o TPMS - Corvette Forum
    Last edited by CentralCoaster; 12-27-2012 at 11:35 AM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    Toyota just paid $1Billion dollars in a settlement. They also agreed to put a brake override system in all their cars.

    I think with this huge settlement black boxes will become a norm in cars just like planes. Car companies, insurance companies, and lawyers will all want to use that data in court to determine fault. Considering how large the insurance lobby is, it's pretty much a given this will happen.
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    Rookie CentralCoaster's Avatar
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    I have a serious problem with being convicted by a machine or recording device. All it really does is increase business for lawyers.
    Last edited by CentralCoaster; 12-27-2012 at 11:41 AM.

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