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Thread: Big Willow June 28th and 29th.

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    OK Richard, offer up some tangible evidence to support your postulate.

    I offered some example of how the lap times are are greater at WSIR than CalSpeedway which is commonly believed to be a HP track in both configs.

    I bet SoWS is more of an HP rewarding track than WSIR. What are the best recorded times for Spec Miata on Streets?


    Oli


    BTW, I don't have 450 HP.
    postulate my ass. I don't have to prove anything. High hp cars go much faster around WSIR than low hp cars. you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that.

    you have more than 450 hp, you cheater.

    I don't know for sure the best Spec Miata time around WSIR, but I think it's about 1:37. As for Streets, I would guess 1:28, although I know of no sanctioning organization with a Spec Miata class that races at streets. You can beat that by at least 10 seconds at WSIR and 6 seconds at SOW, right?
    Last edited by Richard EVO; 07-02-2008 at 05:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    postulate my ass. I don't have to prove anything. High hp cars go much faster around WSIR than low hp cars. you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that.

    you have more than 450 hp, you cheater.

    I don't know for sure the best Spec Miata time around WSIR, but I think it's about 1:37. As for Streets, I would guess 1:28, although I know of no sanctioning organization with a Spec Miata class that races at streets. You can beat that by at least 10 seconds at WSIR and 6 seconds at SOW, right?

    I assume you are joking about your claims to my HP. If not, I will show you dyno sheets. If you are serious you are impuging my character as that would be an assertion that I am cheating.

    The track record for a Spec Miata is 1:36.xxx around WSIR. I am doing 1:29.xxx around WSIR. Show me a legit Spec Miata doing better than 1:28 on SoWS and I will concede your point. If you can document a SM time of 1:28, they are equal in reward to HP. If it is slower than 1:28, than I am correct.

    Shoot away esquire....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    I assume you are joking about your claims to my HP. If not, I will show you dyno sheets. If you are serious you are impuging my character as that would be an assertion that I am cheating.

    The track record for a Spec Miata is 1:36.xxx around WSIR. I am doing 1:29.xxx around WSIR. Show me a legit Spec Miata doing better than 1:28 on SoWS and I will concede your point. If you can document a SM time of 1:28, they are equal in reward to HP. If it is slower than 1:28, than I am correct.

    Shoot away esquire....
    I'm shooting from the hip. I personally am 7 seconds faster around WSIR in an Evo than a Miata. I'm about 6 seconds faster at Streets. Does that prove your point or mine? I have no idea. If you think I am seriously impugning your character, then quit stealing the beer. Your car feels like it has 450 hp. Are you impugning my butt dyno?
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Are you impugning my butt...
    Careful there Theo.
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    The track records posted on WSIR's site must be pretty outdated, as Oli is way below the T1 record!

    http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/...on/records.asp


    I'm learning that a factor as important as HP/weight ratio on the straights is the aerodynamics of a car. My Caterham has a similar HP/weight ratio to a Z06 (163 HP and 1250 lbs), but takes forever to accelerate above 80 mph because it's built like a brick with parachutes.

    This was my first time at the big track at WSIR, so take my comments with that in mind, but it does seem that with the long wide corners Big Willow does allow you to take advantage of momentum more than a course like Streets, where there is a greater difference between speeds during and between corners.
    Last edited by sd7; 07-02-2008 at 07:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sd7 View Post
    The track records posted on WSIR's site must be pretty outdated, as Oli is way below the T1 record!

    http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/...on/records.asp
    Those records are all at least 11 years old.
    "The crashes people remember, but drivers remember the near misses" -Mario Andretti

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    Yes, those track records are not well maintained at all. Plus they don't have records for SoWS at all.

    I think the best thing is to peruse the Speed Ventures listings for times of cars with good drivers that are truly Spec Miata.

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    I found this from last December at SoWS when air temps should be cool and fast:
    Emilio Cervantes 1:29.263 72.590 Mazda Miata 1990 Race 150

    Does anyone know what Emilio was driving? Is this accurate? If so, this car has more HP than a SM car and should therefore be faster.

    I found this from last May:
    TrackDayHookey 1:28.993 72.810 Mazda Miata 1994 Race 128

    I could not find any times for Rob Burgoon. William has some 1:30s. Richard has some 1:32s.

    What is an accurate SM benchmark?


    Oli
    Last edited by Olitho; 07-02-2008 at 08:55 PM.

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    interesting laptime comparsion from this guy, both days are over 100F, is he driving that white Boxter?

    1'33.272 at WSIR

    http://www.speedventures.com/results...id=-2147176079

    1'26.854 at SOWS

    http://www.speedventures.com/results...id=-2147180246


    Jay with his 13x whp Super 7 is 1'25.1 vs 1'34.x
    Last edited by Jaku; 07-03-2008 at 01:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaku View Post
    interesting laptime comparsion from this guy, both days are over 100F, is he driving that white Boxter?

    1'33.272 at WSIR

    http://www.speedventures.com/results...id=-2147176079

    1'26.854 at SOWS

    http://www.speedventures.com/results...id=-2147180246


    Jay with his 13x whp Super 7 is 1'25.1 vs 1'34.x
    Hey,

    That was Dan Aspesi on 6.28.08 at big willow.

    He was driving the white spec Boxter and the black '08 Z06 with brake pads and larger Hoosiers (otherwise stock).

    All the sub 1:36's were in the Z06 The slower lap times were in the white spec Boxter.


    At SOWS 6.13.08, we has driving the white spec Boxter.


    Gene Sigal ran a 1:35.5 in his black spec Boxter at SOWS on 6.28.08.


    As an FYI, these spec Boxters dynoed out at about 180HP to the wheels.

    TonyG
    Last edited by TonyG; 07-03-2008 at 07:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaku View Post
    interesting laptime comparsion from this guy, both days are over 100F, is he driving that white Boxter?

    1'33.272 at WSIR

    http://www.speedventures.com/results...id=-2147176079

    1'26.854 at SOWS

    http://www.speedventures.com/results...id=-2147180246


    Jay with his 13x whp Super 7 is 1'25.1 vs 1'34.x

    It is hard to make comparisons with Dan Aspesi. He could be driving his P-car Boxster, P-car GT2 or his C6 Z06.

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    Here are my SoW times. You wont find my timing through speedventures since I am too cheap to pay for it. These times are my first real try with R compounds. They were mounted on 15x6 so the pressures were really high.


    Car: 1995 Miata M
    Track name: Streets of Willow CCW 5/10/08
    Track location: Rosamond, CA
    Lap time: 1:33.89
    Estimated total vehicle weight with driver: ?
    Estimated wheel horsepower: 100 whp? (OEM)
    Tire size and model: NT-01 205 50 15 on OEM BBS at 45 psi (higher is better, right Bryan? )
    Estimated ambient temperature: 80F
    Mods: Tein Flex, FM front sway, alu flywheel
    Notes:

    Car: 1995 Miata M
    Track name: Streets of Willow CW 5/11/08
    Track location: Rosamond, CA
    Lap time: 1:33.75
    Estimated total vehicle weight with driver: ?
    Estimated wheel horsepower: 100 whp? (OEM)
    Tire size and model: NT-01 205 50 15 on OEM BBS at 45 psi (higher is better, right Bryan? )
    Estimated ambient temperature: 80F
    Mods: Tein Flex, FM front sway, alu flywheel
    Notes:

  13. #93
    Driver upgrade 2.51 JC3D's Avatar
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    While comparing the 2 tracks. I did both of them 1 weekend apart, both of them hot as hell. Not sure how this will help your findings, but think of it as a control.

    Streets: 1:26.159
    WSIR: 1:34.538

    As far as Dan, he is a good driver, but I don't think he did a 1:33 in the spec boxster in that heat. The track record for those is in the 33's and was done in the winter by Dylan. The front runners usually qualify with 34's.
    Last edited by JC3D; 07-03-2008 at 07:54 AM.
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    Out of curiosity, is the comparison we're making here power:weight, or just sheer power?
    "The crashes people remember, but drivers remember the near misses" -Mario Andretti

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    Quote Originally Posted by thefrush View Post
    Out of curiosity, is the comparison we're making here power:weight, or just sheer power?

    I'm not sure anymore...

    I just chimed in to clarify Dan's lap times since he runs multiple cars on occasion.



    TonyG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    I found this from last December at SoWS when air temps should be cool and fast:
    Emilio Cervantes 1:29.263 72.590 Mazda Miata 1990 Race 150

    Does anyone know what Emilio was driving? Is this accurate? If so, this car has more HP than a SM car and should therefore be faster.

    I found this from last May:
    TrackDayHookey 1:28.993 72.810 Mazda Miata 1994 Race 128

    I could not find any times for Rob Burgoon. William has some 1:30s. Richard has some 1:32s.

    What is an accurate SM benchmark?


    Oli
    I don't think you can tell anything from SpeedVentures' event results. First of all, they are not races. You don't know anything about how the cars are prepared. Sometimes SpeedVentures results don't have the right car for people with multiple cars. You don't know who was driving. You don't know the conditions -- it could have been raining, or 113 degrees out (or both -- I have seen that at SOW). The driver could have just been having a bad day and if you look at the next event he was 3 seconds faster.

    Besides, no one WINS an HPDE.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    Driver upgrade 2.51 JC3D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post

    Besides, no one WINS an HPDE.
    Aren't we all winners?
    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC3D View Post
    Aren't we all winners?
    I think you mean wieners.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    I don't think you can tell anything from SpeedVentures' event results. First of all, they are not races. You don't know anything about how the cars are prepared. Sometimes SpeedVentures results don't have the right car for people with multiple cars. You don't know who was driving. You don't know the conditions -- it could have been raining, or 113 degrees out (or both -- I have seen that at SOW). The driver could have just been having a bad day and if you look at the next event he was 3 seconds faster.

    Besides, no one WINS an HPDE.

    Yes, I agree that Speed Ventures results make for a difficult comparison. There are a lot of variables, we don't know if the car was compliant to the rules, race fast laps of record are usually slower than qualifying laps that are more similar to HPDE/time attack lap times, etc.

    So Richard, just agree that I am right like I always am and this can be settled.

    If you do not respond to this post within 60 seconds I will consider that full agreement. Your serious consideration and acceptance of this matter is appreciated.


    Fastest regards,

    Oli

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    Yes, I agree that Speed Ventures results make for a difficult comparison. There are a lot of variables, we don't know if the car was compliant to the rules, race fast laps of record are usually slower than qualifying laps that are more similar to HPDE/time attack lap times, etc.

    So Richard, just agree that I am right like I always am and this can be settled.

    If you do not respond to this post within 60 seconds I will consider that full agreement. Your serious consideration and acceptance of this matter is appreciated.


    Fastest regards,

    Oli
    Stick to the high tech stuff and stealing beer. You can believe what you want, but I can't agree with your claim that WSIR is a "momentum" track. You have been sniffing the fumes from your 600 hp Corvette.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
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