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Thread: Big Willow June 28th and 29th.

  1. #61
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    In a miata you also get to store your kinetic energy in the form of potential energy as you go uphill. At a lower speed you can hug the inside, and then convert your potential into kinetic on the way down!

    Almost makes me wish they had a taller hill and a hairpin at the top. That might be lots of fun.
    At the apex of turn 4 last year is where I pinched off a spec Miata I was lapping because I did not expect him to be there. I passed him 1/2 way between turn two and three and he carried so much speed through three up the hill, hugging the low inside low-horsepower car line that I did not see him and pinched him off. He tagged the right rear corner and spun me out in a Pitt Manuever type of bump. Right behind him was the second place car who passed me as I spun. With only about 3-4 laps left I could not catch him again....



  2. #62
    Senior Member racebronco2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    I totally agree. I felt soo much better once I finally went off in 9, even if it wasn't on exit.

    I wonder if they sell tee shirts?
    How about some track hq t-shirts with the logo on the sleeve and on the back " I survived going off in turn 9".

    I had a discussion with steve abbott concening going off in 9 wasn't that big of a deal, plenty of room to get the car slowed down. It should be part of a drivers education but it won't happen.

  3. #63
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racebronco2 View Post
    How about some track hq t-shirts with the logo on the sleeve and on the back " I survived going off in turn 9".

    I had a discussion with steve abbott concening going off in 9 wasn't that big of a deal, plenty of room to get the car slowed down. It should be part of a drivers education but it won't happen.
    Whoops, small problem with that. Not everyone does

    My bad.

  4. #64
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    wow, Oli you sure are putting a lot of pressure on Manly now
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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    From where I sat, it looked like Manly was taking it easy. Not being the animal that he is at SoW.

    Nothing wrong with working up to it though. I'd be scared to death of a commitment car like a lotus at a track like that.

  6. #66
    Senior Member T1Autobahn's Avatar
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    I just found out that Craig Stanton, pro driver did a 1:32.xx in a n/a elise/exige on A048s.
    -Timothy

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    Manly's laptime improvement

    BW13

    new vs master = 2'06.5 vs 2'01.0

    WSIR

    new vs master = 1'36.5 vs 1'3?.?


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    Quote Originally Posted by T1Autobahn View Post
    I just found out that Craig Stanton, pro driver did a 1:32.xx in a n/a elise/exige on A048s.
    1'32 = Exige S + Suspension + A048s

    1'30 = Elise + Suspension + Slicks

    http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f100...p-times-53279/

  9. #69
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Here's your video Justin:


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    Senior Member T1Autobahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaku View Post
    1'32 = Exige S + Suspension + A048s

    1'30 = Elise + Suspension + Slicks

    http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f100...p-times-53279/
    Thanks Jaku for the correction. I misinterpret Jack Fried's quote,

    "As for what a n/a Elise/Exige can do in the hands of Craig, a professional race car driver -- 1:30.04 in a n/a Elise on heat cycled slicks and 1:32.xx on 048's.

    1:27.xx was done by Craig in Frank's 300 rwhp s/c Exige on 048's. Craig also turned 1:26.xx in my old Cup240. "
    -Timothy

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    that equation tells us something

    slick - oem A048 = exige S - elise + 2s

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    Senior Member racebronco2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Whoops, small problem with that. Not everyone does

    My bad.
    Sorry for those whom i might have affended, i was just thinking about going off and the only damage was a few more rock chips. Was not thinking it thru

  13. #73
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racebronco2 View Post
    Sorry for those whom i might have affended, i was just thinking about going off and the only damage was a few more rock chips. Was not thinking it thru
    Don't feel bad, I suggested it first

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    Senior Member mlk_f1's Avatar
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    One of our friend (Brian O) at the LCS did a 1:34xx on Sunday morning in his Stock N/A Exige on brand new full tread R888s. So I'm sure the N/A Elise can match that time.

    I definitely need more practice and build up my confidence there. You guys will see once I post my TA run video.

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    Senior Member mlk_f1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    AJ, I have a different take on WSIR that is contrarian to many people, but I am fairly certain I am right.

    WSIR is not a horsepower track like most people say. It is a momentum track. A track like CalSpeedway, both the infield and ROval is a HP track. It is a HP track because it has many very tight slow turns connected by drag strip length straights and the ROval if that is in use. It is the most significant track in this area to reward a car that can put down gobs of power coming out of a turn to rip down a long straight.

    WSIR on the other hand really only has the front straight, from turn six to turn eight and a very brief exit of turn two to turn three. Other than those straights most drivers spend almost all of their time in turns on that track. MOst low HP cars spend their time in most turns at speeds near equal to high HP cars. Even SoWS rewards power more than WSIR. At WSIR I have watched spec Miata drivers. Once they get their motor wound up and the car up to speed, they barely use their brakes and they can carry tremendous speeds through the corners. Turn one they only slow a bit and carry a lot of speed into and out of turn two and into three. The turns are almost equal in speed with short straights so there is not much need to brake and slow. A good momentum driver can make nearly as good a time entering turn one, going through turn two, into three and around the Omega, down into five and over the top of six as most high HP cars of similar grip. Only going from six to nine and from the exit of nine to one does HP pay off at WSIR.

    If I spend 90 seconds going around that track, I spend maybe 8 seconds from the top of turn six into the brake zone of turn 9. I probably spend about the same going from the exit of nine to the brake zone of turn one. That gives me about 20% of my time on that track to really use my power advantage over Manly.

    Now lets look at CalSpeedway. I did some mental visioning of CalSpeedway. I spend about 50% of my time on straights on that track not counting turn one and two where I lift a bit, but I am still going faster than the top speed abilities of Spec Miatas.

    The time variation between the SCCA SM track record vs. a T1 car at WSIR and CalSpeedway are:
    • A T1 car lap time is about 10% faster than a SM at WSIR
    • At CalSpeedway a T1 car lap time is over 11% faster at Cal Speedway. It would be even more if the SM cars could not draft in trains down the ROval straight and through turns one and two like they do at CalSpeedway, which the T1 cars seldom do.

    So based upon my premise, WSIR is actually a momentum track that rewards good momentum drivers who are not afraid of the track.

    Rip away at my postulate folks....


    I never thought about WSIR as a momentum track before reading your post. You mention some very good points. I would also think most high HP cars will have to sacrifice the exit of T6 and lift before T-8. Whereas light weight momentum cars can have a higher exit speed at 6 and will probably be able to go into 8 flat out. So the HP advantage on back straight could be even less than it seems.

    So come to think of it, wouldn't a light/low power car (such as an Elise) with some added downforce will improve a lot at WSIR?? ummm

  16. #76
    Junior Member Dmbrown34's Avatar
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    That was a great track day. My times are improving, but nothing to get excited about. 1:42.5 was all I could muster. Couldnt believe how much faster some of the other Lotus were doing. I'll get there one day!

    Looking forward to Buttonwillow in August! Who will be there?
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlk_f1 View Post
    I never thought about WSIR as a momentum track before reading your post. You mention some very good points. I would also think most high HP cars will have to sacrifice the exit of T6 and lift before T-8. Whereas light weight momentum cars can have a higher exit speed at 6 and will probably be able to go into 8 flat out. So the HP advantage on back straight could be even less than it seems.

    So come to think of it, wouldn't a light/low power car (such as an Elise) with some added downforce will improve a lot at WSIR?? ummm
    Oli's full of BS - WSIR is a hp track. Oli says its not because he has 450 hp.
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  18. #78
    Driver upgrade 2.51 JC3D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Oli's full of BS - WSIR is a hp track. Oli says its not because he has 450 hp.
    I agree with Oli. I drove it in that 405hp beast on saturday, and the areas that I am slow with my heavy car, I was slow with his as well. A long turn like turn 2, hp has zero advantage. same with 9. The back straight, front straight, and between 3 and 4 are the only places where I saw a hp advantage and are not long enough in my opinion to really call it a hp track.

    Is it more of a hp track then streets? yes. Is it more of a hp track than the roval, a true hp track? no way.

    spec 944's run it in 1:37 or so....with 100hp.
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    i agree with Oli up to a point, but i think big willow is still some what a hp track compared to BW, SM or SOWS

    if 2 exact same cars with 1 car double the hp (turbo vs na miata, or turbo vs na S2000, or turbo vs na elise) have 2s acceleration difference from 45~95mph, it will be more than 2s from 75~125mph, considered 2 cars have similar corner speed

    high speed re-acceleration requires more hp

  20. #80
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Oli's full of BS - WSIR is a hp track. Oli says its not because he has 450 hp.
    OK Richard, offer up some tangible evidence to support your postulate.

    I offered some example of how the lap times are are greater at WSIR than CalSpeedway which is commonly believed to be a HP track in both configs.

    I bet SoWS is more of an HP rewarding track than WSIR. What are the best recorded times for Spec Miata on Streets?


    Oli


    BTW, I don't have 450 HP.

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