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Thread: Big Willow June 28th and 29th.

  1. #41
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    If I still have a problem, I'll yank out this radiator and have an even larger radiator fabricated. Further... I'm already contemplating a 2nd aux radiator if necessary.

    Anyway, I need to get this sorted out because I have a nice new set of cylinder heads and aftermarket intake I'm dying to slap on (read 50+ HP). And I'm sure that this won't help the cooling situation

    TonyG
    Tony:

    if you don't mind I would make some suggestions: I have a turbo Miata, they are known to overheat. I don't think bigger or 2nd radiator will do. 2nd radiator will work less efficient. return would be minimal.

    1. I see you don't have extractor hood. it helps quite a bit. drawing out hot air from engine compartment.
    2. I also don't see an undertray on your 944. it helps decrease air pressure in engine compartment. thus drawing air through radiator.
    3. your bumper have very little openings. guess you are going aero
    4. ur oil cooler with all the hoses is seriously blocking the airflow to ur radiator. if you could move it to the side.
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 06-30-2008 at 10:30 AM.
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  2. #42
    Driver upgrade 2.51 JC3D's Avatar
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    It was great to meet some more of you this weekend. I feel I did a decent lap time for driving my first laps ever in a front engined v8.

    How did everyone do in the lotus challenge?
    John
    #522 996 Spec / GTS3
    JC3D // Racecars and Keyframes // 996 Spec

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    Motorsports Photographer imager993's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd love to hear the results in the LCS.
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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC3D View Post
    It was great to meet some more of you this weekend. I feel I did a decent lap time for driving my first laps ever in a front engined v8.
    Yes, you did. And with fresh tires on the car I think you could have gone 3-4 seconds faster than what you posted. The tires on the car were wasted by the time you got in to take some laps.


    Oli

  5. #45
    Senior Member zjchaser's Avatar
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    LCS results:

    Overall Results:
    1) #333 -- 1:33.795
    2) #218 -- 1:34.291
    3) #555 -- 1:35.392
    4) #888 -- 1:36.574
    5) #373 -- 1:36.771
    6) #007 -- 1:37.267
    7) #777 -- 1:38.475
    8) #014 -- 1:41.259
    9) #112 -- 1:41.613
    10)#168 -- 1:42.578
    11)#218 -- DNF
    12)#078 -- DNF


    Class Results:

    Cup:
    1) #333
    2) #218

    FI:
    1) #777
    2) #014

    N/A MOD:
    1)#888
    2)#373
    3)#007

    N/A Stock:
    1)#555
    2)#112
    3)#168

    Manly is 888 and Tim is 777. It was a pretty light showing for the lotus cars, I think the track and the heat kept a few people away....and some of us just dont have running cars.

  6. #46
    Senior Member T1Autobahn's Avatar
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    Congrats again to Manly!!!

    No offense to Victor but there weren't much competition in my class as there were only two cars competing(John Seddon's car had a problem as always). The rules said if you spin out then you'll be disqualified so I was playing it safe. It was more fun waiting to see who did what in NA Mod as there were three very competitive drivers, Manly, Robb B. and John W. went neck to neck. Manly won by a very close margin.

    I believe John W. did a 35.xx or 36.xx in practice. Correct me if I'm wrong John.
    -Timothy

    Exige S #777

    www.T1Autobahn.com

  7. #47
    Senior Member mlk_f1's Avatar
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    Oli, thanks for the pointers. But no matter how hard I try, I can not get pass the 36s. I definitely need more practice on this track. The idea of not braking going into T2 or not lifting at T8 is pretty wild. Can't do that yet. And I probably need some more work everywhere else on this track as well, especially the braking into 9. Video coming in a couple days. Looking forward to get some feedbacks from you guys.

  8. #48
    Motorsports Photographer imager993's Avatar
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    Manly, big congrats, but you can definitely do better. When are you going to get a data logger!
    Aaron Kupferman | 2007 BMW Z4 M Coupe | Visual Effects Electric Reality | Motorsports Photography Motorsport Lens | Other Photography AaronKupferman.com

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    Senior Member racebronco2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyG View Post
    Hey,

    I don't run antifreeze. It's not allowed on the track because it's so slippery. I run pure distilled water with Water Wetter.

    The radiator is about 98% shrouded & sealed off. But there's a huge Mocal oil cooler in front of the radiator. This is what seems to have pushed the cooling system into the "marginal" range. However, with the 951 turbo engine, making more HP than the LS1 V8, this setup worked fine. Go figure... (Plus, this radiator is a custom larger than stock, aluminum Ron Davis radiator...)

    I had a bad radiator cap that reared its ugly head big time the last time out on the track. I think that this might have been starting to be a problem the time out before that. This situation was amplified by the fact that the ambient temps have gone way up in the last few weeks.

    I've changed the thermostat, flushed the system numerous times, installed pure distilled water with Water Wetter, and a new radiator cap. I've driven as hard as I can on the street without going to jail on the hottest of hot days and it's stayed right at 185F.

    I'm not sure where I stand, but this Sat will tell the story.

    If I still have a problem, I'll yank out this radiator and have an even larger radiator fabricated. Further... I'm already contemplating a 2nd aux radiator if necessary.

    Anyway, I need to get this sorted out because I have a nice new set of cylinder heads and aftermarket intake I'm dying to slap on (read 50+ HP). And I'm sure that this won't help the cooling situation


    TonyG
    As was stated before, you need to get some type of air extractor hood. Cobra's (2003 and 2004) have problems going into limp mode in weather over
    80 degrees stock. I have a bigger radiator, heat exchanger, radiator inlet boxed in and a custom modded (by me) hood with heat extractors. My car didn't get over 215 degrees vs a friends with the same set-up whom is running 235 degrees. My oil temps are also lower then his are. I am the guy with the orange cobra who spun coming out of turn 4 going into turn 5 after you blew a power steering line.

  10. #50
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imager993 View Post
    Manly, big congrats, but you can definitely do better.
    SO what kind of lap time do you think Manly can do?

  11. #51
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    SO what kind of lap time do you think Manly can do?
    Manly did 1:24s at SOW. fast Spec Miata is in 1:29s (may be 28s, but I doubt it).

    at WSIR, Spec Miata record is 1:37s. so I am think Manly should be in 1:33s at minimum. He need more balls at turn 9

    Oli, isn't Manly like 3 seconds behind you at SOW ? so 4-5 seconds at WSIR ?
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 06-30-2008 at 04:58 PM.
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  12. #52
    Senior Member zjchaser's Avatar
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    a bigger gap is to be expected at WSIR because of Oli's top end vs the Manly's

  13. #53
    sd7
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    Thanks for posting the video Rob! I really enjoyed this track except for turn 9. I think it's going to take me a while to get up to speed there. Sorry for the brake check, Oli!


    Justin

  14. #54
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sd7 View Post
    Thanks for posting the video Rob! I really enjoyed this track except for turn 9. I think it's going to take me a while to get up to speed there. Sorry for the brake check, Oli!


    Justin
    Justin, I have video of you driving my car also. I will compress it and post it.

    Also, I am not sure if I told you, but I drove your car immediately after going off in 9 in the video

    Nothing like nearly wrecking a car to get the confidence up

  15. #55
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    Manly did 1:24s at SOW. fast Spec Miata is in 1:29s (may be 28s, but I doubt it).

    at WSIR, Spec Miata record is 1:37s. so I am think Manly should be in 1:33s at minimum. He need more balls at turn 9

    Oli, isn't Manly like 3 seconds behind you at SOW ? so 4-5 seconds at WSIR ?
    That was about what my calculations came to as well. High 1:33s, certainly 1:34s. I totally understand Manly's times at this point. For me I think my times were slower than my actual ability at WSIR for a long time. It was a function of my cautiousness (read that as fear) more than my driving ability.

    I am still leaving some speed on the table turning into, apexing and exiting turn one. I think I could say the same for turn 9, especially the apex and exit. Next track day out there I plan to slow my exit of turn 9 a bit and purposely run two and four off a few times to demistify blowing that corner. I did it once this past Saturday in an Evo X and it was not big deal. If I feel more comfortable with the off-track experience on nine, I will push harder. I am also leaving some speed on the table exiting turn two and braking into turn three.

    The bottom-line is that I want to get the T1 track record out at WSIR and I think I can do it at the next races there in January when the air is cold as long as the track is dry.

    But back to you Manly, you need more time on that track, not to improve your driving ability because that is without question with anyone who has seen you drive, but to get more gutsy on that track. That track is best driven with very little brake use, even in my car. I only use brakes substantially into turn one, where I am still using them too much, into turn three and into turn five. Even in my car I am not using brakes into turn eight. I lift a little on shortly after turn in and then start feeding power back in for a short full-throttle stint into turn nine. I am now doing 1:29s on good laps, but I have at least another good full second to go. I think ultimately I will certainly do 1:28s and maybe even into 1:27s with the right conditions. That will be good for a track record in T1.

    So yes, I think 1:33s to 1:34s are the target in your car.

  16. #56
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    Next track day out there I plan to slow my exit of turn 9 a bit and purposely run two and four off a few times to demistify blowing that corner. I did it once this past Saturday in an Evo X and it was not big deal. If I feel more comfortable with the off-track experience on nine, I will push harder.
    I totally agree. I felt soo much better once I finally went off in 9, even if it wasn't on exit.

    I wonder if they sell tee shirts?

  17. #57
    sd7
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    Yeah, I knew before you went out! I assumed you wouldn't use the same line!

    I'm too chicken to hang out on the left edge on that turn. There's a place where the radius closes substantially, but without a clear visual indication on where it is. Gonna take me some time to learn it.

  18. #58
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sd7 View Post
    There's a place where the radius closes substantially, but without a clear visual indication on where it is.
    Found it!

  19. #59
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zjchaser View Post
    a bigger gap is to be expected at WSIR because of Oli's top end vs the Manly's
    AJ, I have a different take on WSIR that is contrarian to many people, but I am fairly certain I am right.

    WSIR is not a horsepower track like most people say. It is a momentum track. A track like CalSpeedway, both the infield and ROval is a HP track. It is a HP track because it has many very tight slow turns connected by drag strip length straights and the ROval if that is in use. It is the most significant track in this area to reward a car that can put down gobs of power coming out of a turn to rip down a long straight.

    WSIR on the other hand really only has the front straight, from turn six to turn eight and a very brief exit of turn two to turn three. Other than those straights most drivers spend almost all of their time in turns on that track. MOst low HP cars spend their time in most turns at speeds near equal to high HP cars. Even SoWS rewards power more than WSIR. At WSIR I have watched spec Miata drivers. Once they get their motor wound up and the car up to speed, they barely use their brakes and they can carry tremendous speeds through the corners. Turn one they only slow a bit and carry a lot of speed into and out of turn two and into three. The turns are almost equal in speed with short straights so there is not much need to brake and slow. A good momentum driver can make nearly as good a time entering turn one, going through turn two, into three and around the Omega, down into five and over the top of six as most high HP cars of similar grip. Only going from six to nine and from the exit of nine to one does HP pay off at WSIR.

    If I spend 90 seconds going around that track, I spend maybe 8 seconds from the top of turn six into the brake zone of turn 9. I probably spend about the same going from the exit of nine to the brake zone of turn one. That gives me about 20% of my time on that track to really use my power advantage over Manly.

    Now lets look at CalSpeedway. I did some mental visioning of CalSpeedway. I spend about 50% of my time on straights on that track not counting turn one and two where I lift a bit, but I am still going faster than the top speed abilities of Spec Miatas.

    The time variation between the SCCA SM track record vs. a T1 car at WSIR and CalSpeedway are:
    • A T1 car lap time is about 10% faster than a SM at WSIR
    • At CalSpeedway a T1 car lap time is over 11% faster at Cal Speedway. It would be even more if the SM cars could not draft in trains down the ROval straight and through turns one and two like they do at CalSpeedway, which the T1 cars seldom do.

    So based upon my premise, WSIR is actually a momentum track that rewards good momentum drivers who are not afraid of the track.

    Rip away at my postulate folks....


  20. #60
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    In a miata you also get to store your kinetic energy in the form of potential energy as you go uphill. At a lower speed you can hug the inside, and then convert your potential into kinetic on the way down!

    Almost makes me wish they had a taller hill and a hairpin at the top. That might be lots of fun.

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