+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6
Results 101 to 118 of 118
Like Tree40Likes

Thread: The "Big" Question for Early Stage Tracksters

  1. #101
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    3,076
    Liked
    977 times

    Default

    E36 is good, but pretty expensive to make go fast relative to the other options (not including the initial purchase price).

  2. #102
    Senior Member rhouck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Northridge, CA
    Posts
    169
    Liked
    60 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    ^^^ E36 M3 is pretty cheap now. I had one that I bought new in 1995 and traded in in 2003. Really wished I kept it for a track car. But I'd still rather have an S2K (same exact bhp, by the way, 240 in both cars).
    Would you mind sharing why? I have actually considered both, not for combo DD/track but as track-only cars. It seems that it takes about $5-8k more initially (on average -- there are always crazy deals like your blown motor S2K that sold for cheap) just to get into an S2K, which buys a lot of maintenance, upgrades, etc to make a reliable/safe track car. Is it a price difference? Speed difference? Or just more "fun" to drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    E36 is good, but pretty expensive to make go fast relative to the other options (not including the initial purchase price).
    How so? (and again, not being argumentative -- I am genuinely curious) It seems that all of the upgrades/parts I have seen are the same price or cheaper for the e36. I am assuming we are talking basic power upgrades (i.e., not superchargers, etc.).

    I actually was really set on moving to an S2K as a dedicated track car, but the e36 just seemed to make more practical sense. I am happy to be convinced otherwise as I have yet to pull the trigger on either yet (though getting close)

  3. #103
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    10,979
    Liked
    1477 times

    Default

    ^^^ I never tracked the E36 M3 (the first car I ever tracked was a new '03 350Z that I traded the M3 in on), so I can't compare them as track cars. All I can say is that an S2000 is a blast to drive on track. The way you can just throw it into a corner and get on the gas (and HOLD ON) is just more fun that any other car I have ever driven on track (other than Formula Mazda, but that's not a fair comparison). I prefer the S2K as a track car to my NSX.
    Last edited by Richard EVO; 07-16-2012 at 01:30 PM.
    rhouck likes this.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  4. #104
    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ventura, Calif.
    Posts
    5,449
    Liked
    2243 times

    Default

    On a separate note, it might be fun to take say three Miata drivers like Rob Burgoon (SM), Andrew Kidd (PTE) and myself (PTC) and switch cars with three T1 drivers (Bill, Oli, Jim?) for a race weekend. Everyone pays consumables for the car they're driving. Any tires won (Hoosier) are used as reimbursement for tires used. Owners of cars do the TT class to put data and video in the car both days that the guest driver can use. The T1 drivers have more wins between them so the Miata drivers would have their work cut out for them. Just spitballing.
    That is an interesting proposition.

  5. #105
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    4,188
    Liked
    704 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    That is an interesting proposition.
    All cars used must have Trackhq stickers . . .
    99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
    '91 Mariner Blue Miata project AKA Napoleon

  6. #106
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    3,076
    Liked
    977 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
    How so? (and again, not being argumentative -- I am genuinely curious) It seems that all of the upgrades/parts I have seen are the same price or cheaper for the e36. I am assuming we are talking basic power upgrades (i.e., not superchargers, etc.).

    I actually was really set on moving to an S2K as a dedicated track car, but the e36 just seemed to make more practical sense. I am happy to be convinced otherwise as I have yet to pull the trigger on either yet (though getting close)
    I guess it depends what you are going for and what your goal is for the car. I replaced all the bushings with spherical bearings or aluminum/delrin, reinforced everything, fixed the oiling issues, bought some JRZ's, and was quickly $15k in the hole.
    rhouck likes this.

  7. #107
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,853
    Liked
    1429 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    All cars used must have Trackhq stickers . . .
    ... in the glove box.

  8. #108
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    10,979
    Liked
    1477 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    ... in the glove box.
    You still have a glovebox?
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  9. #109
    Senior Member rhouck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Northridge, CA
    Posts
    169
    Liked
    60 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    I guess it depends what you are going for and what your goal is for the car. I replaced all the bushings with spherical bearings or aluminum/delrin, reinforced everything, fixed the oiling issues, bought some JRZ's, and was quickly $15k in the hole.
    Re oil: did you do more than just baffles + weld the nut? (i.e., S54 pump/pan which seems a good deal pricier)
    Re reinforcements: definitely don't need to do this on S2K so it is a cost consideration
    Re bushings: do you feel this is an e36 only upgrade? If so, just due to age or the car's design?
    Re JRZs: seems like this one isn't a fair consideration because wouldn't you buy the same for S2K? Or do you think you need better suspension for similar performance when comparing e36 to S2K?

    My personal goal is fun, reliable (obviously this is relative), cheap (also relative), track car that 1) I will find challenging, 2) has enough power to be competitive timewise at local tracks (e.g., Buttonwillow), and 3) can potentially go racing with in 1-2 years.

    (I realize my goal may be somewhat at odds to the title of the thread since I would be looking to gut/cage the car with little interest in daily comfort, etc)

    Thanks for the feedback -- I finally felt that I had made up my mind to go e36 but now I am rethinking

  10. #110
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,088
    Liked
    2165 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
    My personal goal is fun, reliable (obviously this is relative), cheap (also relative), track car that 1) I will find challenging, 2) has enough power to be competitive timewise at local tracks (e.g., Buttonwillow), and 3) can potentially go racing with in 1-2 years.
    I am always concerned when I see "safety" omitted from a list of goals/importance in a list such as this....
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

  11. #111
    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Orange County
    Posts
    1,717
    Liked
    742 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    I am always concerned when I see "safety" omitted from a list of goals/importance in a list such as this....
    Some people just want to watch the world burn. From inside their cockpit. Shouldn't we allow them that right?
    2001 MR2-Eleven
    Experience Points: 21
    Youtube Channel.

  12. #112
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Rolling Hills Estates
    Posts
    2,950
    Liked
    855 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    ^^^ E36 M3 is pretty cheap now. I had one that I bought new in 1995 and traded in in 2003. Really wished I kept it for a track car. But I'd still rather have an S2K (same exact bhp, by the way, 240 in both cars).
    And some would caution to careful in the endless quest for modification perfection.

    Below is a classic clip of a street S2k in the hands of a maesto. Billy "the shoe" Johnson.

    Note:

    1. The quiet hands.
    2. The hypnotically focussed, practically unblinking eyes.
    3. The great display on the speedo (really kicking it on Riverside and after the kink - and everywhere else).

    Lesson: Good car + great driver = poetry in motion.

    Buttonwillow #13CW Open Test Day (1/17/09) - Driver Billy Johnson on Vimeo

  13. #113
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    3,076
    Liked
    977 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
    Re oil: did you do more than just baffles + weld the nut? (i.e., S54 pump/pan which seems a good deal pricier)
    Re reinforcements: definitely don't need to do this on S2K so it is a cost consideration
    Re bushings: do you feel this is an e36 only upgrade? If so, just due to age or the car's design?
    Re JRZs: seems like this one isn't a fair consideration because wouldn't you buy the same for S2K? Or do you think you need better suspension for similar performance when comparing e36 to S2K?

    My personal goal is fun, reliable (obviously this is relative), cheap (also relative), track car that 1) I will find challenging, 2) has enough power to be competitive timewise at local tracks (e.g., Buttonwillow), and 3) can potentially go racing with in 1-2 years.

    (I realize my goal may be somewhat at odds to the title of the thread since I would be looking to gut/cage the car with little interest in daily comfort, etc)

    Thanks for the feedback -- I finally felt that I had made up my mind to go e36 but now I am rethinking
    I used the VAC baffle and wire tied, loctited and punched the threads on the oil pump nut, but the S54 setup is definitely the way to go. Some of the bushing upgrades are a must have especially on the earlier cars - the rear lower outer control arm bushing for example, its a ball joint on the later model Ms and can be retrofitted. A dual fuel pump upgrade is a must if you are using R comps and traveling at a reasonable speed, or you will have to keep well over half a tank of fuel at all times.

    Fair enough on the JRZ's, but the S2k chassis is leagues ahead of the E36 in every way IMO. I still have the $399 CX Racing coilovers on my race FD that it came with when I bought it, yet the overall handling of the car feels leagues ahead of the E36 which had a good $15k+ of chassis work.

  14. #114
    Senior Member rhouck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Northridge, CA
    Posts
    169
    Liked
    60 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    I am always concerned when I see "safety" omitted from a list of goals/importance in a list such as this....
    I wasn't listing out mods, I was listing out goals... I would consider both an e36 and an s2k to be safe cars with the proper equipment. How would one accomplish 3) without passing safety tech? I assumed that category subsumes car and driver equipment.

    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    I used the VAC baffle and wire tied, loctited and punched the threads on the oil pump nut, but the S54 setup is definitely the way to go. Some of the bushing upgrades are a must have especially on the earlier cars - the rear lower outer control arm bushing for example, its a ball joint on the later model Ms and can be retrofitted. A dual fuel pump upgrade is a must if you are using R comps and traveling at a reasonable speed, or you will have to keep well over half a tank of fuel at all times.

    Fair enough on the JRZ's, but the S2k chassis is leagues ahead of the E36 in every way IMO. I still have the $399 CX Racing coilovers on my race FD that it came with when I bought it, yet the overall handling of the car feels leagues ahead of the E36 which had a good $15k+ of chassis work.
    Thanks! Things like chassis and feel are hard to understand simply by looking at numbers - I appreciate the feedback on both. I actually found a nicely prepped s2000 but it is not street legal (I have not made the jump to a tow vehicle yet) and not sure what it would take to pass CA smog to make it driveable to/from the track

  15. #115
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    3,076
    Liked
    977 times

    Default

    Rent one of each and take it to the track. Probably no better way to figure it out.

  16. #116
    Faster than Oli jimt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    652
    Liked
    434 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
    Thanks! Things like chassis and feel are hard to understand simply by looking at numbers - I appreciate the feedback on both. I actually found a nicely prepped s2000 but it is not street legal (I have not made the jump to a tow vehicle yet) and not sure what it would take to pass CA smog to make it driveable to/from the track

    I have an S2000 that is street legal for sale. Sent you a pm.

    http://www.trackhq.com/forums/f310/f...ck-ready-5266/
    rhouck likes this.
    ~ Jim Tway
    Tway Motorsports
    (714) 528-2150
    #57 Pacific Automotive Recycling Center Corvette

    Brought to you by:
    Pacific Automotive Recycling Center
    PA Construction
    American Heritage Performance

  17. #117
    Senior Member VagaXt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    559
    Liked
    111 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by azngotmilk View Post
    how many people here actually dd their miatas?
    I still do, and a sub-2:00 at Buttonwillow BTW. True story.
    Red_5 and Neocataboi like this.
    Driving to the limit is my goal.
    Winning with Team 949 Racing is merely the result.
    2013 NASA TTD National Champion
    NASA 25 Hours of Thunderhill Winner: 2011 E2 Class & 2012 E1 Class.
    Multiple wins in NASA PT and WERC series, with many more to come.


    Cheer for us during races throughout the year and like us on Facebook and Twitter!

    "Drive well and have fun." Drive W2W in the SuperMiata Race Series. Also, see me in action on YouTube.

  18. #118
    LongWinded National Champ Bueller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,748
    Liked
    168 times

    Default

    I only glanced through a few pages so im sure ive missed a lot by just glancing, but here are my thoughts. Keep in mind my experience is very limited. In the short while ive been racing, all my experience has been in an Evo. This year i did a few SM races (first time ive ever driven a Miata, also first time in a RWD). I think people are challenged by different things, but you have to race in different cars/classes to know better. My experience isnt an apples to apples comparison because im coming from an Evo, not a Vette. Having said that, imo, its definitely more difficult to be competitive in SM. Not just because there are a ton more cars, but also because of the lack of power. For instance, on certain tracks you have to stay within reach of other cars or else youre done. People will make mistakes, but if you fall behind enough you wont be able to catch the people in front of you. This is one example...by yourself you will hit 100mph, but while drafting you might hit 105mph. So if you make a mistake and fall behind enough you may never catch them again because theyll continuing drafting and the gap will increase more and more. Therefore, maximizing and maintaining your speed while minimizing your mistakes becomes a necessity in SM. And passing isnt easy because if you step out of the draft you will go slower because youre only going that fast because of the draft. This isnt a knock on faster cars, i have one, but i think if you havent raced in SM you wont really understand. So i think the best thing is to go find out for yourself. I understood all this before i tried SM but i didnt really get it until i actually experienced it. One other thing, ive done test days with an SM, but to really understand you have to race. At the same rate, im sure if there was a Spec Vette class that had as many cars as SM and was as competitive that it would be equally challenging, only difference is that i think the challenges would be different.
    Last edited by Bueller; 07-17-2012 at 06:54 PM.
    Team Rambling Warrior Poet


    RRE
    Robispec
    Girodisc
    SCM
    APR

+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts