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Thread: Best story of the year : VW / Audi TDI tricks emission test

  1. #41
    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    I would not buy yet. It's 11M VW only cars affected so far. They are still testing Audi and Porsche cars to see if they are affected. They number of affected cArs can go up even more.

    I have been avoiding VW products until recently when my wife talked me into buying a 2015 A3. Luckily it's not a diesel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    My friends bought a New Beetle convertible TDI the day before this story broke . . . ouch.



    I was thinking the same thing about buying stock in VW but I don't think the bleeding will be over anytime soon.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    In for the Hitler rant on youtube...
    your wish just came true.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I bet Porsche isn't going to F1. I have a feeling either Audi or Porsche will get out of WEC. Budget gonna be cut to survive this thing.

    You know what the penalty is when we are caught without a catalic converter ? This is such a deliberate F U to EPA and CARB. They are not getting out of this one
    Actually my thinking was that Porsche wanted to be "top dog" and be the only ones competing in what was considered the top ladder (WEC) and wanting nothing more than to stick it to Audi and keep them in DTM only, so in essence, VW CEO Winterkorn was getting the shaft from VW Chairman, Piech, and POSSIBLY Porsche CEO Muller.

    We can't forget now-Porsche, at one point, was going to buy VW when Winterkorn and co. pulled a coup and bought Porsche(This all started in 08). Some in Porsche are still steaming about it, although Winterkorn's man, Muller, is at the helm, but who knows who he has to bow down to and appease.

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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    your wish just came true.....
    Simply hilarious

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    WAIT! This news has been public for over 1.5 years, according to Daniel Carder, WVU engineer that discovered the discrepancy. Sounds like someone sat on this for ammo

    The Unassuming Engineer Who Exposed Volkswagen

    Oh, the drama in politics!
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    your wish just came true.....
    That was pretty good! I was imagining what kind of things they might throw in there. I was hoping for a little F1 Redbull reference.

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    If you look at the timeline below (source:autoblog.com),

    VW incident was neglected due to Hyundai/Kia fuel economy crisis. I'm sure VW was laughing hard..



    August 1998 Honda spends $267 million to settle charges it violated the Clean Air Act by disabling "misfire monitoring devices" installed on more than 1.6 million vehicles. Ford spends $7.8 million to settle a charge it violated the Clean Air Act by installing defeat devices on 60,000 Ford Econoline vans.

    May 2014 Working with the International Council on Clean Transportation, researchers at West Virginia University find significantly higher in-use emissions from a 2012 Jetta and 2013 Passat and alert the EPA to their findings.

    November 3, 2014 Korean automakers Hyundai and Kia agree to pay a $100 million fine for overstating the fuel economy on several of their models by as much as six miles per gallon. In announcing the fine, government officials sought to make an example of the two companies to deter further cheating.
    VW officials admit the vehicles were designed with a defeat device to "bypass, defeat and render inoperative elements of the vehicle emissions control systems."
    "This type of conduct quite simply will not be tolerated," said then-Attorney General Eric Holder. "And the Justice Department will never rest or waver in our determination to take action against any company that engages in such activities whenever and wherever they are uncovered."

    December 2, 2014 Following discussions that stemmed from West Virginia University's findings, Volkswagen agrees to initiate a recall of 500,000 cars. The company says a software update will fix the nitrous oxide trap technology and selective catalytic reduction technology causing the cars to miss emissions thresholds.

    May 6, 2015 CARB wanted to see whether the software fix implemented by Volkswagen worked. Using portable emissions measurement systems, the regulatory officials found NOx emissions were still significantly higher than expected.

    July 8, 2015 Results from the CARB testing are shared with the EPA and Volkswagen. A series of technical meetings follow, in which Volkswagen discloses the vehicles have a second calibration intended to run only during certification testing.

    September 3, 2015 In a meeting between Volkswagen and the two regulatory agencies, Volkswagen officials admit the vehicles were designed and manufactured with a defeat device that intended to "bypass, defeat and render inoperative elements of the vehicle emissions control systems," according to CARB.

    September 18, 2015 The EPA issues a Notice of Violation to Volkswagen, and CARB says it has initiated an enforcement investigation. The EPA says pollutants are as much as 40 times beyond allowable thresholds.

    September 20, 2015 Volkswagen issues its first response to the burgeoning crisis. "I personally am deeply sorry that we have broken the trust of our customers and the public," Martin Winterkorn, Volkswagen AG's CEO, writes in a prepared statement. "We will cooperate fully with the responsible agencies, with transparency and urgency, to clearly, openly and completely establish all of the facts in this case."

    September 21, 2015 Volkswagen's stock drops 16.5 percent on news of the cheating scandal. In the US, the House Committee Energy and Commerce announced an investigation, and a Justice Department criminal probe is expected to follow.

  9. #49
    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    I can't decide if this is an excellent example of liberal government overreach destroying business, or an excellent example of why businesses can't be trusted to do the morally correct thing, thus justifying regulations and regulatory agencies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    I can't decide if this is an excellent example of liberal government overreach destroying business, or an excellent example of why businesses can't be trusted to do the morally correct thing, thus justifying regulations and regulatory agencies.
    Oli's grass has died and a gallon of water at 7-11 cost more than gas.
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    If nothing happens and there is no one around why did it not happen?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Se7en View Post
    Oli's grass has died and a gallon of water at 7-11 cost more than gas.
    That tends to happens when Oli lives in a desert and plants a plant species not native to the area under the 7 odd corvettes he parks on his front lawn. What a dope.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    I can't decide if this is an excellent example of liberal government overreach destroying business, or an excellent example of why businesses can't be trusted to do the morally correct thing, thus justifying regulations and regulatory agencies.
    LOL! Wait, you're joking, right? Imma say you're joking cause I know FOR A FACT you like breathing and maybe adding a few more years on to your life. :-)

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2GRX7 View Post
    LOL! Wait, you're joking, right? Imma say you're joking cause I know FOR A FACT you like breathing and maybe adding a few more years on to your life. :-)
    Show me the data that shows unambiguously the relationship between regulations concerning emissions, improvement of air quality AND the point where we see diminishing returns in that relationship.

    I suspect we are far beyond the point of diminishing returns and we could afford to relax regulations without a proportional degradation of air quality.

    Maybe it's just me that failed to become indoctrinated as a child to develop a knee jerk emotional reaction whenever someone says, "B-but muh planet," by school programs and mass media like Fern Gully & Captain Planet. Instead, I grew up with this crazy notion that the earth (and everything in the universe) is under a constant state of change, and to demand that everything stay the same via conservation efforts is not only unnatural, but a losing battle; but, on the other hand, curbing human-caused change due to our inefficiency as a species is a worthwhile endeavor, but should not come at the expense of our economical well being or our freedom.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    Show me the data that shows unambiguously the relationship between regulations concerning emissions, improvement of air quality AND the point where we see diminishing returns in that relationship.

    I suspect we are far beyond the point of diminishing returns and we could afford to relax regulations without a proportional degradation of air quality.

    Maybe it's just me that failed to become indoctrinated as a child to develop a knee jerk emotional reaction whenever someone says, "B-but muh planet," by school programs and mass media like Fern Gully & Captain Planet. Instead, I grew up with this crazy notion that the earth (and everything in the universe) is under a constant state of change, and to demand that everything stay the same via conservation efforts is not only unnatural, but a losing battle; but, on the other hand, curbing human-caused change due to our inefficiency as a species is a worthwhile endeavor, but should not come at the expense of our economical well being or our freedom.
    OK, I wasn't going all philosophical deep-more so just look-out-your-window, deep. Visual evidence; a brown skyline is not naturally occurring, unless a volcano, or forest fires (lightning strikes) have happened. The L.A. basin is just that--a basin where air is stagnate. Automobiles, while not not necessarily the biggest producer of green house gases, end up with their emissions concentrated in that basin more than most locations in the U.S.

    Man-made emissions are bad for the body (I'm ASSuming you agree), and here is VW basically saying "F.U. CARB" and having their diesels spew more harmful crap into the already compromised air of Los Angeles. Friends that have lived there since the late 80's to early 90's have said there's been tremendous progress, but it's still one of the most dangerous places to live in the US, air quality-wise.

    I would think VW 'voluntarily' agreed to abide by this ruling by CARB and EPA, which was in essence, a compromise (GOVT could have enacted higher standards and told VW to pay for it-not consumer), or they could have pulled out of the US (Alfa Romero, Pug). Instead, they now have 7+billion of your hard-earn dollars they TOOK from you to pay for their dishonesty (I know, only one way of looking at things).

    Yeah, for my family, getting out of LA greatly helped with one of my children's breathing issues, but for me to assume all others in that situation are as concerned would be overreaching. Hell, if they were so concerned and had the resources to do so, they would have left, so there's that.
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  15. #55
    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Agreed. It's important to improve air quality.
    Agreed. What we are doing is working.
    Disagree. Evidence that a policy is effective is not evidence that a policy is the best policy.
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  16. #56
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    umm....didn't take that too seriously. Rx7 man talking about emission

    Quote Originally Posted by 2GRX7 View Post
    OK, I wasn't going all philosophical deep-more so just look-out-your-window, deep. Visual evidence; a brown skyline is not naturally occurring, unless a volcano, or forest fires (lightning strikes) have happened. The L.A. basin is just that--a basin where air is stagnate. Automobiles, while not not necessarily the biggest producer of green house gases, end up with their emissions concentrated in that basin more than most locations in the U.S.

    Man-made emissions are bad for the body (I'm ASSuming you agree), and here is VW basically saying "F.U. CARB" and having their diesels spew more harmful crap into the already compromised air of Los Angeles. Friends that have lived there since the late 80's to early 90's have said there's been tremendous progress, but it's still one of the most dangerous places to live in the US, air quality-wise.

    I would think VW 'voluntarily' agreed to abide by this ruling by CARB and EPA, which was in essence, a compromise (GOVT could have enacted higher standards and told VW to pay for it-not consumer), or they could have pulled out of the US (Alfa Romero, Pug). Instead, they now have 7+billion of your hard-earn dollars they TOOK from you to pay for their dishonesty (I know, only one way of looking at things).

    Yeah, for my family, getting out of LA greatly helped with one of my children's breathing issues, but for me to assume all others in that situation are as concerned would be overreaching. Hell, if they were so concerned and had the resources to do so, they would have left, so there's that.
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    Had an appointment to get my baby slaughtering, ozone depleting Passat serviced today. Before I left it, I made them swear that they were not going to impound it or anything.

    This was my last of 3 free services at 30,000 miles, which means so far I have put $0.00 into service for the car. The tires are still at 5/32 and the brakes are all at 9-10 mm. 12-13 mm is new.

    The funniest part of the trip was this sign that was hanging on the side of the wall. In light of what is going on they might want to take that down for awhile LOL

    vw-sign.jpg
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    Anybody notice each time a automotive company achieves the number one spot for most cars sold soon afterwards they are involved in a major recall or end up in legal trouble, GM, Toyota, and now Volkswagen.

    Are we about to see tougher emissions testing that may involve driving the car around a test loop each time the car is smog tested for vehicle registration or more invasive testing of the engine computer.
    If nothing happens and there is no one around why did it not happen?

  19. #59
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    Yeah, the dreams for world dominance never lead to a good outcome.

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