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Thread: Auto Club Crash

  1. #61
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    That is a really strange place for skid marks. Did the McL turn left when the track went right?

  2. #62
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    That is a really strange place for skid marks. Did the McL turn left when the track went right?
    My understanding is that the MP4 divebombed the BRZ into the right hander (no idea what turn #) before this straight, then began moving over to the left thinking the BRZ was clear. The BRZ with its supreme turbo power was, however, not clear and pit maneuvered the MP4 off the track to the left.

    Whole thing sounds completely bizarre and easily avoidable to me though, but what do I know.
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  3. #63
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post

    Whole thing sounds completely bizarre and easily avoidable to me though, but what do I know.
    Agreed. Someone did something very stupid or someone else did something very nasty I suspect.

  4. #64
    PhD Mech. Eng. Vince S.'s Avatar
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    I was there on Sat only. Heard about the crash news late Sunday.

    Oli ( you and I have the same helmet!) and Williams brought up some good points.

    SV needs to assign gatekeepers for each group. Much like NASA. I usually run Red @ SV but decided to drop to Green on Sat. And there was a bloke who went offline to let pple past between T11 and T12, and almost came to a complete stop before T12. He thought I was going to clip him in T12. WTF? Not that much of a close call but pple in RED and GREEN need to be very well-versed with track etiquette.

    Also, the student I had, who was a first timer, asked me if he can go to RED. I explained to him the differences between the groups. And he finally understood.

    IMO, I hope Chuck, Aaron, Dave can work out a new routine to educate the beginners more and also monitor the rest of the run groups. I sat in all of Chuck's downloads and they were amazing. He has a gift for breaking down complex concepts for the beginners.

    Some of the things I reckon that SV can really improve on.

    1. Enforce a mandatory driver's meeting. Giving out wrist bands IF and only IF you show up for the driver's meeting. No wrist band, no track for you.

    2. If you arrive late to the track, you have to sit in the beginner's download meeting regardless.

    3. Enforce mandatory downloads. Giving passes to those who show up at the downloads. No pass, no upcoming track sessions for you.

    4. If you didn't show up for the download and you were called out for being a reckless driver, you will be given a warning. Do it again and you're done for the day.

    5. As for monitoring driver's skills, my thought is to assign a skill level for each SV driver and list that level on the profile page on SV. The driver can only move up to the next level if a more seasoned driver (pro, semi-pro racer, skip barber/nasa type instructor) had previously made the approval. Otherwise, the driver will stay in that level. This can be labor intensive. Because SV will need help with assigning drivers' skills. I know Oli, Williams and number of others here are experienced enough to do the job. It may be time consuming though. But it will deter newbies trying to run in more advanced groups.

    6. Now, if an experienced driver is new to SV and wants to run in a more advanced group, SV has the right to ask for references or a "resume" or a proof that he/she has run in NASA, SCCA or even FIA events.

    Just my 2cents. What do you guys think?
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  5. #65
    Senior Member Matt Andrews's Avatar
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    I don't believe this happened while coming through turn 9. You can't carry enough speed through that turn to spin, slide, and then KNOCK OVER the concrete barrier. (some pictures show a barrier that was moved. they don't show the barrier section next to it that was puched back and fell over) It had to be improper track out I would think? Sherlock track-junkie-keyboard-warrior on the case!
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  6. #66
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Vince, when you are done with my helmet make sure you return it! When I saw you carrying the helmet my first reaction was, "Hey, bring that back" since it is not a common helmet.

    You make many good points. A few of them need to be amended as SV might find them too rigid and difficult to work in practice, but all of them are great ideas.


    Oli
    Last edited by Olitho; 10-08-2012 at 08:27 PM.
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  7. #67
    PhD Mech. Eng. Vince S.'s Avatar
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    Hey Oli, btw, I gave a ride to one of your clients who has an Evora. I think he enjoyed the ride. lol!

    I think it will be unfair to expect SV to run like NASA or SCCA type of clockwork in a short period of time. But most improvements have to start somewhere...somehow. SV adopted the line up by laptimes and that worked well, no? I miss NASA's rigid rules yet I like the more social setting of SV.

    You're right. Assigning drivers' skills will be tough and it can get egoistic at some pt. So perhaps it's a better approach to bring up the issues during the download. When the folks in your group think you're a slow driver, then perhaps it's time to move down.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Andrews View Post
    mclaren was on r888s.
    Well that explains it . . .
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  9. #69
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    Vince -

    You just don't get what SpeedVentures is all about. It's California hang loose track days. Anything pretty much goes. As long as no one gets physically hurt, it don't friggin' matter if idiots bash up their cars, be they Miata or McLaren. Trying to make SV like NASA is like trying to make Obama like Romney. Totally different brands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince S. View Post
    I was there on Sat only. Heard about the crash news late Sunday.

    Oli ( you and I have the same helmet!) and Williams brought up some good points.

    SV needs to assign gatekeepers for each group. Much like NASA. I usually run Red @ SV but decided to drop to Green on Sat. And there was a bloke who went offline to let pple past between T11 and T12, and almost came to a complete stop before T12. He thought I was going to clip him in T12. WTF? Not that much of a close call but pple in RED and GREEN need to be very well-versed with track etiquette.

    Also, the student I had, who was a first timer, asked me if he can go to RED. I explained to him the differences between the groups. And he finally understood.

    IMO, I hope Chuck, Aaron, Dave can work out a new routine to educate the beginners more and also monitor the rest of the run groups. I sat in all of Chuck's downloads and they were amazing. He has a gift for breaking down complex concepts for the beginners.

    Some of the things I reckon that SV can really improve on.

    1. Enforce a mandatory driver's meeting. Giving out wrist bands IF and only IF you show up for the driver's meeting. No wrist band, no track for you.

    2. If you arrive late to the track, you have to sit in the beginner's download meeting regardless.

    3. Enforce mandatory downloads. Giving passes to those who show up at the downloads. No pass, no upcoming track sessions for you.

    4. If you didn't show up for the download and you were called out for being a reckless driver, you will be given a warning. Do it again and you're done for the day.

    5. As for monitoring driver's skills, my thought is to assign a skill level for each SV driver and list that level on the profile page on SV. The driver can only move up to the next level if a more seasoned driver (pro, semi-pro racer, skip barber/nasa type instructor) had previously made the approval. Otherwise, the driver will stay in that level. This can be labor intensive. Because SV will need help with assigning drivers' skills. I know Oli, Williams and number of others here are experienced enough to do the job. It may be time consuming though. But it will deter newbies trying to run in more advanced groups.

    6. Now, if an experienced driver is new to SV and wants to run in a more advanced group, SV has the right to ask for references or a "resume" or a proof that he/she has run in NASA, SCCA or even FIA events.

    Just my 2cents. What do you guys think?
    Last edited by Richard EVO; 10-08-2012 at 09:32 PM.
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  10. #70
    Senior Member psychoazn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Andrews View Post
    I don't believe this happened while coming through turn 9. You can't carry enough speed through that turn to spin, slide, and then KNOCK OVER the concrete barrier. (some pictures show a barrier that was moved. they don't show the barrier section next to it that was puched back and fell over) It had to be improper track out I would think? Sherlock track-junkie-keyboard-warrior on the case!
    With "iphone hdr" (hence the funky color correction and stuff).

    You can see HOW FAR it is from T9.

    pucsicsal - The fastest unit of speed measurement is not the speed of light, it is the speed of flatout. Hence the BRZs limit.

  11. #71
    Senior Member DutchOven's Avatar
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    From the words of the Mclaren driver on their respective forums:

    "No videos of accident as my go pro ran out of battery after the first session.
    Only have the video from the first session showing I was being very cautious."
    Bull****.
    -Kevin M.

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  12. #72
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    I I would have to say that one of the hardest parts of track days is categorizing drivers and their cars. If you go by their times it does not mean that they know track procedures but if you go by experience and skill it doesn't always mean that their times will be up to par with the faster guys in the groups. So either way people will complain about being held up in traffic or they will be put in a more dangerous situation with a less experienced driver. Put it this way go to Big Willow and get a pro driver in a stock Miata and then get a guy with maybe a day or 2 at a track in a Z06 vette or something what are the times going to be... but does that really reflect what groups they should be in and either way are people going to complain?

    Also trying to enforce that people have completed driving schools and counting track days and so on is massively labor intensive and well most track day organization probably don't charge enough to go through the hassle and if they did we would complain about their prices.

    It would be hard for me to believe Crawford went out thinking this was a "race" of any kind, more like a shake down/test and tune. I highly doubt in any way he wants to deal with the crap about getting into it with a Mclaren, even if it will get a million people saying the Crawford name. Although they say there is no such thing as bad press haha.
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  13. #73
    Senior Member chongl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchOven View Post
    From the words of the Mclaren driver on their respective forums:



    Bull****.
    LOL...maybe if their sessions were 90 minutes long *rolleyes*

  14. #74
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    If he forgot to shut it off, he might well only have the first session. I've had a bear of a time keeping my camera working and not corrupting data when I need it to club another driver over the head with it.

  15. #75
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjfubar101 View Post
    I I would have to say that one of the hardest parts of track days is categorizing drivers and their cars. If you go by their times it does not mean that they know track procedures but if you go by experience and skill it doesn't always mean that their times will be up to par with the faster guys in the groups. So either way people will complain about being held up in traffic or they will be put in a more dangerous situation with a less experienced driver. Put it this way go to Big Willow and get a pro driver in a stock Miata and then get a guy with maybe a day or 2 at a track in a Z06 vette or something what are the times going to be... but does that really reflect what groups they should be in and either way are people going to complain?

    Also trying to enforce that people have completed driving schools and counting track days and so on is massively labor intensive and well most track day organization probably don't charge enough to go through the hassle and if they did we would complain about their prices.

    It would be hard for me to believe Crawford went out thinking this was a "race" of any kind, more like a shake down/test and tune. I highly doubt in any way he wants to deal with the crap about getting into it with a Mclaren, even if it will get a million people saying the Crawford name. Although they say there is no such thing as bad press haha.
    That's why you make the top group open passing. The pro driver in a stock miata will be good at watching his mirrors.
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  16. #76
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Andrews View Post
    I don't believe this happened while coming through turn 9. You can't carry enough speed through that turn to spin, slide, and then KNOCK OVER the concrete barrier. (some pictures show a barrier that was moved. they don't show the barrier section next to it that was puched back and fell over) It had to be improper track out I would think? Sherlock track-junkie-keyboard-warrior on the case!
    Drag race out of turn 9?

  17. #77
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    this turned out to be the best publicity for Crawford ever...

    I didn't know Crawford makes a turbo kit for BRZ, now I know......
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  18. #78
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    in HPDE, a cheap car (say Miata) always win fighting out for apex against say a Porsche, Ferrari or any cars with blue tapes covered front end....

    this is why I always give room to Burgoon....one look at his beat up doors and fenders, Burgoon wins.....

    may be this was the mentality of Crawford, except this time McLaren driver didn't back off.
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  19. #79
    LongWinded National Champ Bueller's Avatar
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    I glanced through this thread but didnt see any video. Has any video been posted? The only one i found is this one:

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  20. #80
    PhD Mech. Eng. Vince S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Vince -

    You just don't get what SpeedVentures is all about. It's California hang loose track days. Anything pretty much goes. As long as no one gets physically hurt, it don't friggin' matter if idiots bash up their cars, be they Miata or McLaren. Trying to make SV like NASA is like trying to make Obama like Romney. Totally different brands.

    Richard,

    Yes I get SV. I have been "getting" them since John Wurth was in the band. Which is why I said I like the social and relax setting of SV.

    Not trying to make SV like NASA but SV can take some good tips from NASA. Driver's meeting is mandatory and that's no if-else-but about that. If you want to show up whenever to a track event, then book the entire track to yourself. That's my point.

    You have no idea what closed forums talked about and quickly blamed it on SV as a bad organizer. And I have been trying to defend SV on these forums.

    Edit: btw you do know somebody got hurt at the last BW event? [noted: this incident was a VARA event not a SV event]
    Last edited by Vince S.; 10-11-2012 at 12:14 PM.
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