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Thread: Auto Club Crash

  1. #41
    Senior Member psychoazn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Andrews View Post
    the McLaren and the Ferrari were in the same part of the track. I didn't see if they were passing the BRZ at the same time or not. I'm 99% sure that the MCLaren and Ferrari were behind the BRZ coming off the oval. I highly doubt that the BRZ could exit turn 9 with enough speed to overtake the McLaren, no matter how badly he screwed up the exit of that turn. I didn't see them enter 9, but I would be shocked if the BRZ was behind.
    The BRZ was leading, with the McLaren following.
    pucsicsal - The fastest unit of speed measurement is not the speed of light, it is the speed of flatout. Hence the BRZs limit.

  2. #42
    Senior Member psychoazn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ1 View Post
    I would be very surprised if a turbo BRZ had as much power or ability to put the power down as a Mclaren. But I don't know what tires the Mclaren or BRZ had. Not to mention what kind of power the BRZ had. But clearly, the Mclaren was going faster (in terms of lap times) if it caught the BRZ. No?
    The BRZ was on R1R.
    pucsicsal - The fastest unit of speed measurement is not the speed of light, it is the speed of flatout. Hence the BRZs limit.

  3. #43
    Senior Member psychoazn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heelntoe View Post
    Based on random speculation out of my @$$ and reading into the quotes from both parties, it seems that the BRZ was probably treating this almost like a race session? I mean cmon, something about "racing line" and "should have seen the FMIC and Brembo...surprised BRZ could keep up". Sounds like too much ego and aggression from an industry regular who probably ended up attacking way too hard at a trackday. Im sorry, but there is no "racing line" at a trackday. I organize and run trackdays too and I know much better than to force w2w margins at a trackday and always give the boys in the big cars space as I always assume they are an inexperienced driver out for more of an "experience" then a serious driver development session. Throwing in corner workers being on his side is a moot point, being a regular and having sway of the locals could have easily twist a situation where an elderly driver who "demands" respect because of his "reputation". As such (and this is purely speculation) I can see this go completely either way, even though the McLaren driver is automatically being thrown under the bus.

    Ok so he has videos of him being obnoxious and exceeding the speed limit. How quickly can a McLaren be over the speed limit on the street? 3 seconds from a normal cruising pace?
    Quirt was saying the BRZ needed more tire and was having trouble keeping traction. Granted, the guy is only used to AWD, but he wasn't pulling away from me any when I was behind him. I'd catch up in every braking zone and corner with less tire, less brakes, and less power.

    I don't know enough to a gauge the skill level of the McLaren driver; I was only behind him for a few turns, and we were being held up by traffic.
    Last edited by psychoazn; 10-08-2012 at 01:24 PM.
    pucsicsal - The fastest unit of speed measurement is not the speed of light, it is the speed of flatout. Hence the BRZs limit.

  4. #44
    JJ1
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    Quote Originally Posted by heelntoe View Post
    Based on random speculation out of my @$$ and reading into the quotes from both parties, it seems that the BRZ was probably treating this almost like a race session? I mean cmon, something about "racing line" and "should have seen the FMIC and Brembo...surprised BRZ could keep up". Sounds like too much ego and aggression from an industry regular who probably ended up attacking way too hard at a trackday. Im sorry, but there is no "racing line" at a trackday. I organize and run trackdays too and I know much better than to force w2w margins at a trackday and always give the boys in the big cars space as I always assume they are an inexperienced driver out for more of an "experience" then a serious driver development session. Throwing in corner workers being on his side is a moot point, being a regular and having sway of the locals could have easily twist a situation where an elderly driver who "demands" respect because of his "reputation". As such (and this is purely speculation) I can see this go completely either way, even though the McLaren driver is automatically being thrown under the bus.

    Ok so he has videos of him being obnoxious and exceeding the speed limit. How quickly can a McLaren be over the speed limit on the street? 3 seconds from a normal cruising pace?
    I think SV Red/ green drivers should be expected to know racing/passing lines. That being said, it's not w2w and aggressive passing moves shouldn't be necessary.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    in the last say 3 SV events I've attended this year, there have been some drivers that clearly didn't belong in green or red group. green group was especially bad, I think it is because SV has listed Green as advanced / high intermediate...

    I hope SV will start vetting red / green group.
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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    I went out in Green and I was pretty shocked at the abysmal driving by some....

    I rode as a passenger in blue on Sunday and a GT-R and a Porsche GT3 RS only stayed on track because of the e-nannies. They went beyond abysmal to downright scary. The P-car driver got black flagged. I think the corner workers were scared for him. I sure was....
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    I honestly think if the mclaren was as innocent as he claims to be, he would have already posted his video as evidence.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    Huh?
    Sorry, to clarify: as in traditional and defined racing line with respect to experienced drivers and w2w folk. Usually between very large skill differences, car preps and drivers experimenting the traditional racing lines can be thrown out the window at trackdays. Say I was an experienced driver out to test my car, I can't expect the supercar club that came out to read my car's body language, be familiar with racing lines or be consistent. Hence I will be weary and give them ample room for the high chance of error until I have followed and/or confirmed for myself that the pilot is someone I can trust within inches of my car.

  9. #49
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. T View Post
    I honestly think if the mclaren was as innocent as he claims to be, he would have already posted his video as evidence.
    won't that apply to the other car also ?
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  10. #50
    JJ1
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    I think the problem is SV has to acomidate a lot of cars. If everyone was driving in the appropriate group you could have 5 cars in red and 80 in black. That's great if your in red but obviously creates problems for the organizers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    won't that apply to the other car also ?
    absolutely, but thats assuming someone has a picture of the brz with a go pro stuck to the side....

    I could care less whos right or wrong but this he said she said bull**** is dumb. if someone had solid evidence proving their innocence it would be up already imo
    Last edited by Mr. T; 10-08-2012 at 02:31 PM.

  12. #52
    Senior Member psychoazn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. T View Post
    absolutely, but thats assuming someone has a picture of the brz with a go pro stuck to the side....

    I could care less whos right or wrong but this he said she said bull**** is dumb. if someone had solid evidence proving their innocence it would be up already imo
    Well, it's a shop car that was there for testing... so I think we can safely assume that SOME video equipment, as well as data acquisition, should be on the car. Should, being the key word.
    pucsicsal - The fastest unit of speed measurement is not the speed of light, it is the speed of flatout. Hence the BRZs limit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    in the last say 3 SV events I've attended this year, there have been some drivers that clearly didn't belong in green or red group. green group was especially bad, I think it is because SV has listed Green as advanced / high intermediate...

    I hope SV will start vetting red / green group.
    I've only been in SV Red once and was surprised by how bad some of the driving and awareness was. It was a Corvette Challenge day and a few of those guys had no business in Red.
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    Red group is usually pretty good, but I always get the feeling people are pushing too hard for the HPDE title. That and the wide range of awareness can make for some pretty scary situations.

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    None of this matters since each will pay for their own cars. Blame is a similar pissing contest as who is faster.

    In regards to SV red or green I usually run green because there are less whiners in there. Last weekend I was in red and amazingly there was no whining! In my opinion there should be no Green/red whining. Green and red are open passing. Learn to pass and problems are solved. One can always come into the hotpits and the starter will put you out for better track position if you can't pass. However, we all should be friends out there. A little courtesy and friendship goes a long way. If you got a guy up your "6" just hold your line and let him pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    they split the BRZ, leading to contact...

    I am not sure if that's the cause, but split to pass is always a bad idea in any HPDE or racing situation...passee have a tendency to move out of the way of the first passer he/her sees, and into the 2nd passer....
    The best thing we can hope for is that we learn something from this incident. I hope that what you say does not happen.

    PEOPLE HOLD YOUR LINE FASTER CARS WILL GET BY YOU.

    In SCCA clubracing, We split cars all the time. It is pretty much understood that if one is being passed to hold one's line (MAYBE back out of the gas a MILD amount) and faster cars will find their way around you. If one trys to help a car get by them, one should make sure that they are off line well in advance of the faster car's approach so that the faster car is not surprised by what one does.
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    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychoazn View Post
    The ferrari was a different incident with different driver in the BRZ in the black run group.

    The McLaren/BRZ incident was in the Red run group with Quirt driving.
    Wait. So you are saying the same BRZ was involved in two different on track incidents with two separate cars.
    Was this BRZ trying to draw attention to itself by trying to "race" the supercars?

    I found this quote from the BRZ camp amusing. Use every opportunity you can to sell your product.

    "The McLaren was out of line trying to over take on the inside of the apex. The McLaren lost control then made contact with the passenger side of the BRZ then spun out of control in front of the BRZ.

    Clearly both super cars misjudged the power of the turbo BRZ, if they paid attention to their surroundings they would have seen the FMIC and Brembo GT front and rear big brake kit on the car but I guess you would have had to be in front of the car to see it right?"

    I stay out of Speedventures Red specially if I bring an expensive street car. With the cheap track car I don't really care.
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  18. #58
    Senior Member psychoazn's Avatar
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    Before and after, on-track.

    Skid marks are from the McLaren.



    pucsicsal - The fastest unit of speed measurement is not the speed of light, it is the speed of flatout. Hence the BRZs limit.

  19. #59
    Senior Member psychoazn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    None of this matters since each will pay for their own cars. Blame is a similar pissing contest as who is faster.

    In regards to SV red or green I usually run green because there are less whiners in there. Last weekend I was in red and amazingly there was no whining! In my opinion there should be no Green/red whining. Green and red are open passing. Learn to pass and problems are solved. One can always come into the hotpits and the starter will put you out for better track position if you can't pass. However, we all should be friends out there. A little courtesy and friendship goes a long way. If you got a guy up your "6" just hold your line and let him pass.
    Very well said sir. Aaron encourages the whining however, because it'll expose anyone who blatantly doesn't belong there.
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    pucsicsal - The fastest unit of speed measurement is not the speed of light, it is the speed of flatout. Hence the BRZs limit.

  20. #60
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    If one trys to help a car get by them, one should make sure that they are off line well in advance of the faster car's approach so that the faster car is not surprised by what one does.
    Yes, this ^

    Last second line changes creates a lot of unneccessary excitement for everyone.


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