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Thread: Apply for E85 Smog Exempt

  1. #21
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackDayHookey View Post
    If you listen to Ed for any length of time, you will realize that it is not just the car running on manure.

    Signed,

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    I just got a crush on you Gordon.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    Hakeem just went to the right of Michelle Bachmann.
    I have a crush on Michelle Bachman . . .

    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    Hakeem just went to the right of Michelle Bachmann.
    I am all about small government, I just think the Repubicans (or at least all their candidates) are asshats.
    Johnny_Se7en likes this.

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    Zhong,

    I almost posted something which was factually incorrect, but I didn't. E85 is still derived mainly from corn ethanol, something like 12 billion gallons worth. I understand the politicos want 36 billion gallons of biofuels by 2022, and I also understand that the corn ethanol cap is 15 billion gallons. Exactly how much of that finds its way into E85 is not something easily found. Corn is big agribusiness, and big agribusiness is bad for everyone... at least in the way we go about it. I support the free market and encourage true capitalism everywhere, but that market ain't free and it sure as hell has ventured far from capitalism into the realm of corporatism.

    I do not consider tax breaks to be subsidies, by the way. I encourage them for every industry.

    The main problem is that as a fuel, it's flawed by its delivery system. There just aren't enough stations with E85 pumps. Not enough stations means too limited a market for manufacturers to create engines around the fuel. The possibilities of engines running higher octane fuel with a cooler intake charge are obvious; an engine designed to run on E85 can help mitigate the decreased energy potential versus gasoline by exploiting the positive attributes. However, without infrastructure in place to keep customers from getting stranded miles from nowhere, manufacturers aren't going to make engine systems designed to run only E85.

    Should we try to push through flawed initiatives in the hopes that they'll set precedent? I do not think so.

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    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
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    I also seem to recall that recently (and much of what's quoted above isn't recent) that dependency on foreign oil is down to 46% from that 70% figure.

    I'd like to see more focus on fuel economy than on fuels. There is, IMO, more of a bang for the buck there.

    Steve

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    Senior Member TrackDayHookey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    I just got a crush on you Gordon.
    I will keep both soap and keys in their un-dropped state. Good luck.

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    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    I have a crush on Michelle Bachman . . .

    Looks like she's enjoying that E85-dog.

    I don't think we should provide any incentives to E85. Let it grow or die on it's own merits (capitalism). What about all the fertilizer and chemicals sprayed on the corn fields? They take energy to produce and have impacts on the environment as well. What about all the smog exempt tractors used to farm and harvest the corn? I'm for E85 if we use all the corn syrup and corn chips that currently make up a large percentage of our kids drinks and food and instead use it to make fuel. Why not solve childhood obesity at the same time?

    Seriously, I do agree all smog control should be limited to tail pipe emissions only. Who the fu%^ came up with all these stupid CARB and visual rules when in the end you still have to measure tailpipe emissions?

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post

    Seriously, I do agree all smog control should be limited to tail pipe emissions only. Who the fu%^ came up with all these stupid CARB and visual rules when in the end you still have to measure tailpipe emissions?
    The reasoning is the factory and CARB stickered stuff does extensive testing to test emissions over most of the car's performance envelope. The sniff test is just taking a sample rather than evaluating the whole envelope.

    I'd argue that of the modest demographic that modifies their cars, if you can get it to pass the sniffer, you probably aren't doing anything too terrible.

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    There are enough Prius and their ilk on the road now, to more than make for the few who are driving catless cars on the street.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  10. #30
    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    The reasoning is the factory and CARB stickered stuff does extensive testing to test emissions over most of the car's performance envelope. The sniff test is just taking a sample rather than evaluating the whole envelope.

    I'd argue that of the modest demographic that modifies their cars, if you can get it to pass the sniffer, you probably aren't doing anything too terrible.
    Yes, because they only test the engine in neutral. How much time and money is wasted on CARB? And how much business is it restricting in the aftermarket industry? It's easier and more representative of actual emissions to measure what comes out of the tailpipe and forget all the guess-work. If they need to put a load on the engine to provide a better sample, then do it with a dyno system.

    However, I can think of arguments against this idea in that if they only looked at the tailpipe emissions for SMOG it would be easier to cheat the system. For example, you could just throw on a couple sets of cats on your tailpipe for the test and then go home and pull them off.

  11. #31
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    Yes, because they only test the engine in neutral. How much time and money is wasted on CARB? And how much business is it restricting in the aftermarket industry? It's easier and more representative of actual emissions to measure what comes out of the tailpipe and forget all the guess-work. If they need to put a load on the engine to provide a better sample, then do it with a dyno system.

    However, I can think of arguments against this idea in that if they only looked at the tailpipe emissions for SMOG it would be easier to cheat the system. For example, you could just throw on a couple sets of cats on your tailpipe for the test and then go home and pull them off.
    They have a crude dyno for california tests I think. I don't think it's in neutral. They don't want to force all the smog shops to buy dynojets.

    Although... that could be interesting...

  12. #32
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    Not just in neutral. They have rollers for the drive wheels (front or rear). Not sure what they do with AWD cars (my '06 Evo is due for its first smog test next year).
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  13. #33
    Senior Member ayon's Avatar
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    Signed # 543

    auto-blog could likely take a big chunk out of the votes needed.....
    Last edited by ayon; 12-17-2011 at 04:43 AM.

  14. #34
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Not just in neutral. They have rollers for the drive wheels (front or rear). Not sure what they do with AWD cars (my '06 Evo is due for its first smog test next year).
    FWD and RWD cars are tested at idle and then with some load on the rollers,it is actually dyno..I was told from a smog shop owner that if the software is unlocked it can measure up to 300 whp.AWD cars are tested only on idle,and maybe on high idle.

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    Senior Member Johnny_Se7en's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Not just in neutral. They have rollers for the drive wheels (front or rear). Not sure what they do with AWD cars (my '06 Evo is due for its first smog test next year).
    Start looking for a test station with fwd capability, expect to pay a little more. I had to smog test last year and somehow found a place that had never smoged a MINI, I still have booth cats but no muffler, and it still passed. I know mufflers do nothing for emissions but you still have to pass the visual test and the CHP love writing "modified exhaust" tickets.

    I am all for performance improvement and if it is green fine but when it cost more then what is currently available or provides less value it's not going to sale. When I go to put gas in the car I will check the pump for the 10% ethanol sticker if it's there then I go somewhere else, why because my car doesn't go as far and the performance is not the same as it would be if it were pure gasoline.
    Last edited by Johnny_Se7en; 12-17-2011 at 02:09 PM.
    If nothing happens and there is no one around why did it not happen?

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