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Thread: Apply for E85 Smog Exempt

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Default Petition for E85 Smog Exempt

    https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition...paign=shorturl

    Individuals who modify their vehicles to run on cleaner alternate fuels (E85, CNG, etc.) can apply to be smog exempt.
    Individuals who modify their vehicles to run on cleaner alternate fuels (E85, CNG, etc.) can qualify and apply to become smog exempt in any state

    Example: Taking a stock car running on gasoline and modifying it to run on E85. To modify a vehicle to run on E85, it requires the individual to switch to a bigger intake, larger fuel injectors, larger fuel pump, extra sensors, and at times (depending on the vehicle) requires an ECU stand alone system to control the newly modify components. Doing this will fail the vehicle at smogging due to the visual inspection for multiple issues, one being that the vehicle doesn't have the OBD connection anymore. Even though the vehicle failed visually, out the tailpipe the vehicle can be considered a LEV (Low Emission Vehicle) or ZEV (Zero Emission Vehicle)


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    Last edited by Pure EvoIX; 12-12-2011 at 09:45 PM.
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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Signed #37
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

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    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    signed
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    Does anybody know if e85 vehicles are smog exempt in California?
    If nothing happens and there is no one around why did it not happen?

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    Signed - #75

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    Senior Member DutchOven's Avatar
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    signed #85
    -Kevin M.

    2010 Subaru WRX

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    signed #98 -- long way to 25,000
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    Done. #108

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    I do not support E85 as a fuel. It's currently wasteful and corrupt, a byproduct of collusion between government and private sectors as well as proof positive of our willingness to settle for an inefficient fuel source given modern factory engine management and design philosophies. There are so many subsidies, tariffs and price supports that it's nearly impossible to untangle how much the government truly supports the corn industry and I am philosophically opposed to the usage of a (further?) subsidized fuel.

    Would I support E85 if it was made from other products, like garbage, and was produced without government intervention and subsidies? Maybe. I'd have to research it further.

    I would be behind an initiative exempting diesel engine swaps from smog regulations. The potential for modern diesels to put down big power numbers while putting down big mileage numbers is unbeatable.

    You know what would be cool? An MR2 Spyder with a SKYACTIV diesel in it. Crazy fuel economy with 325lb-ft of torque. Win-win.

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    ^^^ Ed Begley, Jr. has a car that runs on cow manure. Maybe you should get one of those . . .
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOneThreeCoupe View Post
    I do not support E85 as a fuel. It's currently wasteful and corrupt, a byproduct of collusion between government and private sectors as well as proof positive of our willingness to settle for an inefficient fuel source given modern factory engine management and design philosophies. There are so many subsidies, tariffs and price supports that it's nearly impossible to untangle how much the government truly supports the corn industry and I am philosophically opposed to the usage of a (further?) subsidized fuel.

    Would I support E85 if it was made from other products, like garbage, and was produced without government intervention and subsidies? Maybe. I'd have to research it further.

    I would be behind an initiative exempting diesel engine swaps from smog regulations. The potential for modern diesels to put down big power numbers while putting down big mileage numbers is unbeatable.

    You know what would be cool? An MR2 Spyder with a SKYACTIV diesel in it. Crazy fuel economy with 325lb-ft of torque. Win-win.
    This is spot on. I was going to write something similar but you did it far more eloquently than I could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    ^^^ Ed Begley, Jr. has a car that runs on cow manure. Maybe you should get one of those . . .
    If you listen to Ed for any length of time, you will realize that it is not just the car running on manure.

    Signed,

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOneThreeCoupe View Post
    I do not support E85 as a fuel. It's currently wasteful and corrupt, a byproduct of collusion between government and private sectors as well as proof positive of our willingness to settle for an inefficient fuel source given modern factory engine management and design philosophies. There are so many subsidies, tariffs and price supports that it's nearly impossible to untangle how much the government truly supports the corn industry and I am philosophically opposed to the usage of a (further?) subsidized fuel.

    Would I support E85 if it was made from other products, like garbage, and was produced without government intervention and subsidies? Maybe. I'd have to research it further.

    I would be behind an initiative exempting diesel engine swaps from smog regulations. The potential for modern diesels to put down big power numbers while putting down big mileage numbers is unbeatable.

    You know what would be cool? An MR2 Spyder with a SKYACTIV diesel in it. Crazy fuel economy with 325lb-ft of torque. Win-win.
    Totally agree

    ..except when it comes time to fill up the tank in my race car. Then I'm all for 112 effective octane and $3.00/gal race gas
    WWW.949RACING.COM
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackDayHookey View Post
    Signed,

    Oli's ugly twin
    There. Fixed it for you.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    Default Part 1

    Please edumacate yourselves and keep yourselves updated (Part 1)

    Q&A for E85

    Q. What is E85 ethanol?
    A. Ethanol is a high octane, domestically-produced renewable fuel. E85 ethanol is an alternative fuel to gasoline and is a blend of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline – although the exact percentages vary seasonally.

    Q. Isn’t ethanol only able to be produced from corn?
    A. No. Ethanol can be produced from a variety of materials; however, the vast majority of today’s domestic ethanol production uses corn as the basic feedstock. In 2003, 57% of the total corn grown in the U.S. was used as animal feed and 19% of the total crop was exported. Ethanol production currently consumes about 13% of the total U.S. corn crop.

    Although not yet in large-scale commercial production, “cellulosic ethanol” is an emerging technology to produce ethanol from agricultural waste and forestry residues such as corn stalks or rice husks, or from purposefully–grown crops such as switch grass or trees. The production of cellulosic ethanol results in greater greenhouse gas reductions than achieved by producing ethanol from corn.

    Q. What are the benefits of using E85 ethanol instead of gasoline?
    A. There are several benefits to using E85. Those benefits include:
    • Ethanol, the major component of E85, is a renewable fuel.
    • Using E85 helps to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
    • Using E85 helps to reduce dependence on petroleum, and helps create greater diversity in our nation’s energy supplies and sources.
    • Using E85 has the ability to help improve vehicle performance because E85 ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline which allows for more horsepower and torque.
    • Using E85 helps to reduce smog-forming emissions.
    • Using E85 can help to support rural communities and the domestic agriculture.

    Q. I’ve seen some recent studies that show that the amount of energy required to produce E85 ethanol is greater than what the fuel generates when powering a vehicle. Is that true?
    A. No, current research findings prepared by Argonne National Laboratory (a U.S. Department of Energy Laboratory), indicates a 38% gain in the overall energy input/output equation for the corn-to-ethanol process. In fact, of the 12 studies conducted on this topic since 1995, nine of those studies found positive net energy balances. These studies were conducted by the USDA, DOE’s Argonne Labs, Michigan State University, Colorado School of Mines, the Canadian government, and others.

    Q. When using E85 ethanol, don’t you get decreased fuel economy than you do with gasoline?
    A. E85 ethanol holds less energy per gallon than gasoline. Therefore, drivers may experience a 25 percent shorter cruising range on E85 ethanol than with gasoline depending on their particular vehicle and their driving habits/conditions.

    Q. How much gasoline does E85 save?
    A. Comparing gasoline fuel use over 1,000 miles:

    E85 Fuel​Regular Gasoline
    Gasoline Used

    15mpg Vehicle​10 gallons​66 gallons
    20mpg Vehicle​7.5 gallons​50 gallons
    25mpg Vehicle​6 gallons​40 gallons
    30mpg Vehicle​5 gallons​33.3 gallons

    Q. How much emissions are reduced by using E85?
    A. Example of emissions reductions over 1,000 miles from 15mpg Vehicle:

    Carbon Dioxide ​172 lbs​1208 lbs
    (60% from on-road sources)

    Nitrogen Oxides ​3.3 lbs​7.26 lbs
    (43% from on-road sources)

    Carbon Monoxide ​260 gph-hr​2450 gph-hr
    (59% from on-road sources)

    Hydrocarbons​103 gph-hr​125 gph-hr
    (24% from on-road sources)​

    *gph-hr is term used by US EPA as unit of measurement for air emissions

    Q. I heard recently about a Stanford University study by Mark Jacobson called “The Effects of Ethanol (E85) Versus Gasoline Vehicles on Cancer and Mortality in the United States.” The study says ethanol actually increases smog and therefore increases health risks.
    A. There are notable flaws to the study, including:
    • According to the National Governors Ethanol Coalition and others, Jacobson failed to take into account the reduction in greenhouse gases the switch to ethanol would create.
    • According to the Natural Resources Defense Council, the ozone difference Jacobson found was so small it may be within the study's margin of error.
    • The study showed that the smog impact would be minimal in the Southeast because of the availability of green space.

    Q. What Goes into E85 Pricing?
    A. Wholesale prices for the fuel ethanol used to blend E85 tend to follow gasoline prices for a couple of reasons, including:
    • Most ethanol is used as a gasoline additive (e.g. E5.7, E10) and it is bought/sold through the nation's petroleum distribution system;
    • The federal excise tax credit (incentive everyone talks about) for fuel companies blending ethanol/biodiesel can directly and indirectly connect the prices of these fuels. The incentive reduces the federal road tax owed by companies involved and results in gasoline prices becoming a 'benchmark' of sorts for fuel commodities;
    • The balance of supply/demand is typically the biggest influencing factor in pricing. In spring 2005, ethanol supplies were high and wholesale prices were very low. In summer 2006, ethanol prices spiked when demand outstripped supply. Most authorities attribute this sudden demand shift to oil companies dropping the MTBE additive and moving to wider use of ethanol. Most recently, prices have stabilized -- supply appears to be catching up with demand.

    Q. In terms of cost, which is more expensive – gasoline or E85 ethanol?
    A. The price of E85 ethanol varies by market and can fluctuate just like any other fuel. During the spike in gasoline prices in September 2005, the price of E85 ethanol was as much as 60 cents a gallon less than gasoline in some places. In 2006, the price of ethanol has reached new highs as refiners abruptly replaced the additive MTBE with ethanol. This sudden increase in demand has produced a temporary price spike that has made E85 ethanol more expensive than gasoline in some areas. However, ethanol production costs are significantly below today’s price of gasoline. In the future, we expect E85 ethanol to be cheaper per mile than gasoline when gas prices are high and more expensive per mile when gas prices are low.

    Q. How do vehicles powered by E85 ethanol operate? If E85 ethanol fuel is not available, does that mean the vehicle will not run?
    A. E85 flexible fuel vehicles are designed to be able to run on E85 ethanol, gasoline, or any blend of both fuels. So even if E85 ethanol is not available, the vehicle will operate just fine on gasoline. The engine control module in a flexible fuel vehicle helps to identify what fuel or blend of fuels is running through a vehicle’s system. Based on the data provided, the system then makes adjustments accordingly.

    Q. What are some of the federal tax incentives currently available?
    A. There are several federal tax incentives currently available, including:

    • Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC) - provides ethanol blenders/ retailers with $.51 per pure gallon of ethanol blended or $.0051 per percentage point of ethanol blended (i.e., E10 is eligible for $.051/gal; E85 is eligible for $.4335/gal). The incentive is available until 2010.
    • Section 1344 of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 - extended the tax credit for biodiesel producers through 2008.
    o $0.51 per gallon of ethanol at 190 proof or greater
    o $1.00 per gallon of agri-biodiesel
    o $0.50 per gallon of waste-grease biodiesel
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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Default Part 2

    Please Edumacate yourselves and keep yourselves updated. (Part 2)

    Five Ethanol Myths, Busted | Autopia | Wired.com
    The United States consumes nearly one-quarter of the world’s petroleum production, yet contains a small fraction of its reserves. As other countries’ economies grow, the appetite for this finite energy source increases, placing greater pressure on the resource itself and the environment at large. With inflation and higher energy costs consuming an ever-larger portion of our budget, the need for additional energy sources grows.

    We must develop a multitude of alternatives to address our future energy needs. One such alternative is ethanol, which is domestically generated and sustainable. However, there are many myths surrounding ethanol, and I’ve come across a lot of them in my work at Argonne National Laboratory. I’m a mechanical engineer in the lab’s Transportation Technology R&D Center, so I’ve spent a lot of time researching ethanol.

    Here are counterpoints to five prevalent myths about ethanol.


    Myth No. 1: Ethanol requires more energy to make than it yields.
    False. Argonne National Laboratory research has shown that corn ethanol delivers a positive energy balance of 8.8 megajoules per liter. The energy balance from second-generation biofuels using cellulosic sources is up to six times better, according to a study published in Biomass and Bioenergy Journal.

    There are two key reasons ethanol is no longer net energy negative.

    First, corn production efficiency has increased dramatically: Producers now grow 160 bushels per acre today versus the 95 grown in 1980, and corn yield continues to increase.

    Second, ethanol production has become more energy-efficient. Today, more than 90 percent of corn used in ethanol production goes through a dry milling process that uses far less energy than the wet milling process used before. The combination of more corn per acre, coupled with a reduction of energy input to process ethanol, has resulted in a favorable energy output. The gallons of ethanol yielded per bushel of corn has also increased by about 50 percent.

    Myth No. 2: Ethanol production reduces our food supply.
    False. Only 1 percent of all corn grown in this country is eaten by humans. The rest is No. 2 yellow field corn, which is indigestible to humans and used in animal feed, food supplements and ethanol.

    Specifically, a bushel of corn used for ethanol produces 1.5 pounds of corn oil, 17.5 pounds of high-protein feed called DDGS, 2.6 pounds of corn meal and 31.5 pounds of starch. The starch can be converted to sweeteners or used to produce 2.8 gallons of ethanol. DDGS displaces whole corn and some soybeans traditionally used in animal feed. The United States is a large exporter of DDGS to China and other countries.

    Additionally, the food-versus-fuel debate has spurred significant research and development of second-generation biofuels like cellulosic ethanol that do not use food crops. Cellulosic ethanol is made from the “woody” structural material in plants that is unusable by humans. Unlike food crops, ethanol crops and cellulosic ethanol crops can grow in any soil that will sustain grass.

    Researchers, including Argonne, are investigating using marginal land to grow ethanol crops. Studies from the U.S. Department of Energy suggest the United States has enough non-edible biomass to produce approximately 30 percent of our total transportation fuel requirements by 2030. That could go a long way toward easing our reliance on imported petroleum.

    Taken together, the increase in crop yield and the use of marginal lands can enable us to produce food and fuels.

    Myth No. 3: Ethanol crops and production emit more greenhouse gases than gasoline.
    False. A 1996 EPA study analyzing sources of air pollution confirmed that gasoline vehicles and non-road equipment are the largest contributors to vehicular gaseous hazardous air pollutants. However, another study showed ethanol reduces tailpipe carbon monoxide as much as 30 percent and tailpipe particulate matter emissions by 50 percent (.pdf). And blending ethanol with gasoline dramatically reduces carbon monoxide tailpipe emissions and tailpipe emissions of volatile organic compounds that form ozone.

    Finally, a life cycle analysis of ethanol found “at present and in the near future, using corn ethanol reduces greenhouse gas emission by more than 20 percent, relative to those of petroleum gasoline.” Blending cellulosic ethanol with gasoline to make E85 brings the reduction to 63 percent. Some purpose-grown woody crops for next-generation fuels actually increase soil carbon enough to yield over a 100 percent reduction in GHG emissions.

    Myth No. 4: Ethanol requires too much water to produce.
    False. The amount of water used to make ethanol has declined dramatically. Today, producing one gallon of ethanol requires about 3.5 gallons of water. That’s a little more than it takes to process a gallon of gasoline. Much of the criticism about ethanol’s water requirements stem from the need to irrigate feedstock crops in drier climates. But most ethanol is produced from rain-fed crops grown in the Midwest.

    In addition, ethanol is not carcinogenic and doesn’t poison groundwater or the ocean. Ethanol rapidly biodegrades. Concerns over ethanol spills are muted by ethanol’s low toxicity. In fact, you’ll find ethanol in beer, bourbon and other happy-hour beverages you’ve probably consumed.

    Myth No. 5: Cars get lower gas mileage with ethanol.
    OK, this one’s true. If you completely burn a gallon of gasoline and a gallon of E85, you’ll get 25 percent less energy from the E85. Flex-fuel cars that run on gasoline and ethanol see 25 percent less mileage with ethanol. However, a gallon of ethanol costs approximately 17 percent less than that of a gallon of gasoline. In some, but not all, regions, the fuel-economy deficit is recovered by cheaper fuel costs. As the market grows and matures, production optimization would further drive down ethanol costs.

    Research currently underway takes advantage of ethanol’s characteristics in a fully optimized engine that could greatly reduce the energy deficit. Last year, for example, Delphi cut the fuel economy penalty by one-third — while simultaneously increasing power. Downsizing the engine, combined with cheaper E85, would result in cost savings to the consumer, potentially making E85 more favorable than gasoline. On the plus side, ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline so it can improve performance.

    On a final note, it’s important to take a step back and really look at our nation’s energy position. Currently, the United States consumes 20 million barrels of oil per day, approximately a quarter of the world’s total. Seventy percent of that petroleum is used for transportation.

    To meet that demand, we import 65 percent of what we consume. Yet, there are a number of hidden costs associated with the use of petroleum. A study conducted in 2003 showed that the true cost of a gallon of gasoline (including all indirect costs) was $5.28 per gallon. Yet in 2003, the average pump price for a gallon of gasoline was only $1.50. One can imagine what the actual cost is today by factoring in such indirect costs.

    We produce about 900,000 barrels of ethanol per day in the United States. That surpasses the volume of petroleum we import from Nigeria and is within striking distance of the amount that we import from Venezuela or Saudi Arabia. Ethanol is making a real contribution to our energy needs and reducing our dependence on imported petroleum.

    Editor’s note: Researchers at the U.S. Department of Energy’s Argonne National Laboratory occasionally contribute guest posts to Wired.com. In writing this post, Jehlik was not paid by, nor did he benefit from, the ethanol industry or its lobby. His research is energy-neutral and his paycheck remains the same regardless of his findings.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Totally agree

    ..except when it comes time to fill up the tank in my race car. Then I'm all for 112 effective octane and $3.00/gal race gas
    +1 I'm for anything that will make cracks in draconian emission rules. I'd like to be able to stay street legal after doing interesting things to my car that will still pass a sniffer test. If going to corn is what it takes, I'll do it, even if corn is bad big picture wise.

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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Hakeem just went to the right of Michelle Bachmann.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

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