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Thread: 350Z or Miata for the track?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    I'd love to drive Crusher sometime. I can tell from the vids it's a wicked little car.
    It's suprisingly peppy in the straights - it mowed down Paul Geddings' GTS2 car. One doesn't expect a miata to outaccelerate anything except large rocks and small vegetables.

  2. #22
    Faster than Oli jimt's Avatar
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    Having driven all four of these cars in question, here's my take.

    -The RX7 is a real piece of ****. And I mean really really ****ty. But you know its ****ty, and like it anyway. It handles like hell compared to the following three cars, but its lightweight and can brake.
    -The spec miata like the next two, are the only real choices for a track car, whether it be HPDE or Racing. A spec miata handles great, is lightweight and the cheapest to run, but lacks the speed and power of the next two. Crusher is a whole different sexy beast and will be left out of this discussion. Obviously, tons of classes to race in.
    -The S2000 is fun and fast out of the box. Handles as well as a miata, but faster acceleration and top speed. Plus you get to have fun over-steering pretty much everywhere. Costs are a little bit higher than Miata. Only problem with this car is there is no where to run W2W. At best you'll see 3 cars at any SCCA or NASA event.
    -The corvette (C5 for this discussion) has it all; handling, braking and speed. But your consumables (tires, brakes and fuel) cost about 50% more than the miata. You pay for that speed. Plenty of places to race it.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimt View Post
    Having driven all four of these cars in question, here's my take.

    -The RX7 is a real piece of ****. And I mean really really ****ty. But you know its ****ty, and like it anyway. It handles like hell compared to the following three cars, but its lightweight and can brake.
    -The spec miata like the next two, are the only real choices for a track car, whether it be HPDE or Racing. A spec miata handles great, is lightweight and the cheapest to run, but lacks the speed and power of the next two. Crusher is a whole different sexy beast and will be left out of this discussion. Obviously, tons of classes to race in.
    -The S2000 is fun and fast out of the box. Handles as well as a miata, but faster acceleration and top speed. Plus you get to have fun over-steering pretty much everywhere. Costs are a little bit higher than Miata. Only problem with this car is there is no where to run W2W. At best you'll see 3 cars at any SCCA or NASA event.
    -The corvette (C5 for this discussion) has it all; handling, braking and speed. But your consumables (tires, brakes and fuel) cost about 50% more than the miata. You pay for that speed. Plenty of places to race it.
    50% more consumables than a miata? I call bullsheeto. Don't you measure tire life in minutes?
    Last edited by robburgoon; 03-14-2012 at 11:36 PM.
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    350s have weak suspension geo and high weight, plus low power output, S2k or miata over 350 any day

  5. #25
    Track Newbie NammyBoy's Avatar
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    I think the S2000 is already underpowered, so I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to drive a Miata. I think it is more fun to drive a car that is power limited. But with a Miata, it's just grip grip grip everywhere, no matter what you do. That's got to be boring sometimes... am I wrong?

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    Faster than Oli jimt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    50% more consumables than a miata? I call bullsheeto. Don't you measure tire life in minutes?
    With A6's, that's correct. I don't even like rolling them from the trailer to the car. They lose about 1/32" doing that.

    I was using tire cost in that calc, not life. A 315 wide A6 is about $300. A 225 wide A6 is about $200.
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    Pro Lurker GreyFocus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NammyBoy View Post
    I think the S2000 is already underpowered, so I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to drive a Miata. I think it is more fun to drive a car that is power limited. But with a Miata, it's just grip grip grip everywhere, no matter what you do. That's got to be boring sometimes... am I wrong?
    yes you are wrong LOL

    tracking a miata to its potential is a appeal all its own, believe it or not my fav track to drive when i had my miata was big willow LOL

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyFocus View Post
    yes you are wrong LOL

    tracking a miata to its potential is a appeal all its own, believe it or not my fav track to drive when i had my miata was big willow LOL
    Cuz you actually only use the brake... once per lap?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    so 370z don't have a throttle body ? they use cam timing for throttle ? anyone care to explain it ?
    It has one, but under normal operation the throttlebody stays WOT and valve lift controls air intake. System also is the primary cause of the oil getting cooked at high RPM.

  10. #30
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    Another vote for the S2000 here.
    Less powah is better

  11. #31
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    I run track days in a 350z and love the car. It is a fun track day car...easy to drive reasonably fast. Having said that, if I decided to get serious and go road racing, the Z would probably not be my choice. It is heavy and making more power is very expensive. Also, consumables for the car are not cheap.

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    Well, now that we have decided that you are buying an S2000, here's some basic advice. The only model years you should consider are the 2003 AP1, or the 2004 - 2005 AP2.

    My vote goes for the AP1, because of the 2.0 liter motor with 9000 rpm rev limit, which is a hoot, and the lower price. The 2002 and before AP1 has something in the engine called the "banjo bolt" problem, that you want to avoid. Was fixed by Honda in the '03 model. You will need a bump steer kit (rear toe rods and front camber joints) or the '03 will be really twitchy, but that's a low cost mod. Also, be sure to get an oil catch can (cheap), because AP1 has a tendency to blow back oil into the exhaust system on really hard right turns, so that the oil burns in the exhaust and causes smoke. It's harmless, but a little ugly to corner workers. Catch can takes care of that.

    '04 and '05 AP2. 8000 rpm rev limit. Some of the rear twitchiness dialed out by Honda. A little more expensive. 2.2 liter motor with a little more torque, but same hp. People say they are faster, but I have never driven one, so I can't say. After 2005, mechanical throttle replaced with drive by wire system, you don't want that. Plus the 2006 - on model years will be more expensive. And as Emilio once told me, "Honda dumbed everything down with the AP2."

    If you really want to spend a lot, get a CR (factory hardtop and rear wing included, and some other goodies). Only available the last model year, I think. You have to live with drive by wire, but the other upgrades make it worth it. You will pay 3 times as much for a nice CR as a good '03 AP1.

    One other thing about S2000. It is the ONLY street car that you can drive on track in the hottest weather of the summer without a big racing radiator. Honda did a great job of track testing the car when it was being designed, and the factory radiator is perfectly adequate. The only track car I have ever owned that I didn't have to put in a big radiator to avoid overheating.
    Last edited by Richard EVO; 03-15-2012 at 08:27 AM.
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    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  13. #33
    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimt View Post
    Having driven all four of these cars in question, here's my take.

    -The RX7 is a real piece of ****. And I mean really really ****ty. But you know its ****ty, and like it anyway. It handles like hell compared to the following three cars, but its lightweight and can brake.
    -The spec miata like the next two, are the only real choices for a track car, whether it be HPDE or Racing. A spec miata handles great, is lightweight and the cheapest to run, but lacks the speed and power of the next two. Crusher is a whole different sexy beast and will be left out of this discussion. Obviously, tons of classes to race in.
    -The S2000 is fun and fast out of the box. Handles as well as a miata, but faster acceleration and top speed. Plus you get to have fun over-steering pretty much everywhere. Costs are a little bit higher than Miata. Only problem with this car is there is no where to run W2W. At best you'll see 3 cars at any SCCA or NASA event.
    -The corvette (C5 for this discussion) has it all; handling, braking and speed. But your consumables (tires, brakes and fuel) cost about 50% more than the miata. You pay for that speed. Plenty of places to race it.
    The RX7 was handling especially crappy the weekend you joined us. And it was getting progressively lower on power as every single part of the power train gradually bled to death. What I found similar between it and my vette were the shift points being nearly identical and it had 4 tires and a steering wheel.

    Re: a miata, I would definitely enjoy a car like Crusher that has some balls and requires finesse with the brake and throttle. A spec miata would be a challenge to race, but just would not give me the speed rush that I enjoy at the track. I know because our RX7 actually had more power than a spec miata and even on street tires the throttle was basically always at the floor everywhere and I could have been sipping scotch and smoking a cigar down the straights steering with my thigh.
    99 C5 corvette SCCA GT2
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  14. #34
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NammyBoy View Post
    I think the S2000 is already underpowered, so I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to drive a Miata. I think it is more fun to drive a car that is power limited. But with a Miata, it's just grip grip grip everywhere, no matter what you do. That's got to be boring sometimes... am I wrong?
    which is exactly why I thought Miata was too overpowering for me. so I bought a 61hp (new, and not whp) Fiat X1/9 so I can enjoy all the grip grip grip !!
    psychoazn and Neocataboi like this.
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    ^^^ William -

    I hope you let me drive your X1/9 someday. It will be a trip down memory lane for me.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  16. #36
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Maybe underpowered will become the next power bragging point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    Maybe underpowered will become the next power bragging point.
    Are you on crack?
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Are you on crack?
    William started it

    But if you think about it, isn't it more impressive to do a 2:06 BRP 13 CW in a 120 whp Miata than 2:00 in a [insert high powered good handling car here]?
    Last edited by Red_5; 03-15-2012 at 10:29 AM.
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    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
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    To me the challenge is getting the most out of whatever car you happen to be driving. Finding 50rpm in the corner, or getting on the power 10 feet earlier, all these things are part of the challenge. It's not easy to be one of the fastest guys -- I certainly am not -- and I think that's the real measure: is it hard to drive to 100% ?

    Steve

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    ^^^ William -

    I hope you let me drive your X1/9 someday. It will be a trip down memory lane for me.
    no problem. in fact I am driving it today.
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
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    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
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