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Thread: 2011 Mustang GT vs. E92 M3

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    Member smack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    I drive an evo. -_-
    so do i.

    and he's absolutely right...

    and i totally agree with the mustang and m3 not being in the same league perception wise. maybe the stang can hold it's own on the track but the guys shopping for their next m3 type car is not dropping by the ford dealer.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    I would love to see a fast mustang on track. Hate to stereotype, but there are reasons why we only see certain models out on track.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smack View Post
    so do i.

    and he's absolutely right...

    and i totally agree with the mustang and m3 not being in the same league perception wise. maybe the stang can hold it's own on the track but the guys shopping for their next m3 type car is not dropping by the ford dealer.
    that is true

    but in my case, a mustang might as well be a bmw luxery wise compared to what im used to driving everyday

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I would love to see a fast mustang on track. Hate to stereotype, but there are reasons why we only see certain models out on track.
    i would love to try and break that stereotype

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Reading comprehension is just fine, it's skepticism about your handling claims.

    Also not sure we both define handling the same way:
    James May Helps Define Handling

    In order to fully buy in to what you are saying, I'd need to see lap times and then also see how the cars felt to drive.

    And I still think that kicking this off with an M3 and a mustang was silly. Why don't we look at a neon SRT4 and an RX-8? They have similar stats, the dodge is quite a bit cheaper, but the dodge is a WWD neon and the RX8 is RWD sports car (arguably).
    Handling: Performance through a corner. Or how about "Cornering ability".

    It's Silly Nissan ever compared the GTR to the infamous 911 Turbo

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I would love to see a fast mustang on track. Hate to stereotype, but there are reasons why we only see certain models out on track.
    It seems that car models on track tend to be regional (except SM which are everywhere). Go to club races in the south east, the south, etc... and there are a lot more Mustangs in club racing (American Iron amongst other classes). I agree there aren't many Mustangs raced/tracked in the southwest.

    Yes Mustangs are not known for their cornering/handling abilities and it would be nice to start breaking that stereotype.

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntman View Post
    Handling: Performance through a corner. Or how about "Cornering ability".

    It's Silly Nissan ever compared the GTR to the infamous 911 Turbo
    And we're calling you out on comparing the M3 and the mustang.

    We're on different pages on what handling means. Mine includes steering and pedal feedback, turn-in, curb manners, and all that fuzzy stuff.

    One more think about the cornering and live rear axle praise you have been heaping on your borrowed mustangs, how much are your shocks worth? $5K? $10K? More? It's probably a safe bet that the stock shocks on the M3 are a smidge better built and better tuned than the stock mustang.

    Also, if we are talking about track potential of the cars it's still kind of a B.S. comparison. First thing a racer will do is yank out all the luxury of a luxury car to save weight. Then after stripped weight you're comparing, what, how much room in the wheel wells the cars have for wide tires? It's kind of silly. The only person to seriously track/race a modern M3 has enough money to not care about writing it off, and probably enough money to not care about the price difference all that much.

    I am not at all a status snob or any of that, and I probably would buy a new mustang (not bloodly likely) before a new M3 (never), but when you buy a porsche over a corvette, or a BMW over a taurus, or RWD over FWD, even though you what you get for what you pay steadily gets worse as you go upmarket, that money is almost definitely getting you a better car.
    Last edited by robburgoon; 08-20-2010 at 09:04 AM.

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    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
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    Based on the race results this year, it would seem that a good Mustang can indeed run right with an M3 on the track. Or am I missing something other than the races on Speed I keep watching with that Rouch Mustang in front of the Turner M3?

    Steve

  7. #47
    Smack-Talkin' Member J. Tyler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    And we're calling you out on comparing the M3 and the mustang.

    We're on different pages on what handling means. Mine includes steering and pedal feedback, turn-in, curb manners, and all that fuzzy stuff.

    One more think about the cornering and live rear axle praise you have been heaping on your borrowed mustangs, how much are your shocks worth? $5K? $10K? More? It's probably a safe bet that the stock shocks on the M3 are a smidge better built and better tuned than the stock mustang.

    Also, if we are talking about track potential of the cars it's still kind of a B.S. comparison. First thing a racer will do is yank out all the luxury of a luxury car to save weight. Then after stripped weight you're comparing, what, how much room in the wheel wells the cars have for wide tires? It's kind of silly. The only person to seriously track/race a modern M3 has enough money to not care about writing it off, and probably enough money to not care about the price difference all that much.

    I am not at all a status snob or any of that, and I probably would buy a new mustang (not bloodly likely) before a new M3 (never), but when you buy a porsche over a corvette, or a BMW over a taurus, or RWD over FWD, even though you what you get for what you pay steadily gets worse as you go upmarket, that money is almost definitely getting you a better car.
    Who are you arguing with

    No one is saying that new M3 buyers and new Mustang buyers are the same demographic.

  8. #48
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    since this is a "track" forum.

    definition of performance, whether power or handling is just LAP TIME.

    there are other factors determines which is a better track car - reliability, durability, cost of maintenance, etc.. but if we are talking about performance, then lap time is all I would care.
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 08-20-2010 at 10:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    since this is a "track" forum.

    definition of performance, whether power or handling is just LAP TIME.

    there are other factors determines which is a better track car - reliability, durability, cost of maintenance, etc.. but if we are talking about performance, then lap time is all I would care.
    Take a high hp heavy car that blasts down the straightaways and tippy-toes through the corners. Then take a lighweight low hp car that flies through the corners and can't do much on the straights.

    Now assume that both cars do exactly the same lap times at WSIR. Is their "performance" the same? I think not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Take a high hp heavy car that blasts down the straightaways and tippy-toes through the corners. Then take a lighweight low hp car that flies through the corners and can't do much on the straights.

    Now assume that both cars do exactly the same lap times at WSIR. Is their "performance" the same? I think not.
    my goal would be to get the stang to dance in the corners and keep the power close to stock as to have a balance setup

  11. #51
    Senior Member pucsicsal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Take a high hp heavy car that blasts down the straightaways and tippy-toes through the corners. Then take a lighweight low hp car that flies through the corners and can't do much on the straights.

    Now assume that both cars do exactly the same lap times at WSIR. Is their "performance" the same? I think not.
    And besides "performance," you also have to measure "fun". What's more fun, the former or the latter? If I can't afford both in one package, I'd rather take the latter, but that's just me.

    Unless of course the Mustang doesn't tippy-toe in the corners and just turns like a champ. Can't imagine it turning as good as my Miata though

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    I think it is actually harder to take a much heavier car and make it corner as well as a light car.

    Virginia International Raceway, Grand West Course, 4.1 miles, Car and Driver, February 2010. You would think an Arial Atom would be faster than a ZR1. But it didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silversprint View Post
    I think it is actually harder to take a much heavier car and make it corner as well as a light car.

    Virginia International Raceway, Grand West Course, 4.1 miles, Car and Driver, February 2010. You would think an Arial Atom would be faster than a ZR1. But it didn't.

    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...4&d=1265026546
    I have been utterly underwhelmed by the many Aerial Atoms I have seen on track. I am much more impressed with the Lotus 2-eleven.
    Last edited by Richard EVO; 08-20-2010 at 03:06 PM.
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  14. #54
    Senior Member DocNrock's Avatar
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    The 2-11 seems like a fantastic track car. Its a bit spendy, though.
    2009 Nissan GT-R -- nicely modded

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    Quote Originally Posted by pucsicsal View Post
    And besides "performance," you also have to measure "fun". What's more fun, the former or the latter? If I can't afford both in one package, I'd rather take the latter, but that's just me.

    Unless of course the Mustang doesn't tippy-toe in the corners and just turns like a champ. Can't imagine it turning as good as my Miata though
    well ive have a miata, and now i want the other side of the spectrum, heavy, long wheel base, high torque

  16. #56
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyFocus View Post
    well ive have a miata, and now i want the other side of the spectrum, heavy, long wheel base, high torque
    If you can sit tight for a little while Grey, I'll be buying a caged dirt oval car. Presumably the car can have the setup changed to turn both ways and do asphalt. For a reasonable fee you can experience slinging a big muscle car around a road course

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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    If you can sit tight for a little while Grey, I'll be buying a caged dirt oval car. Presumably the car can have the setup changed to turn both ways and do asphalt. For a reasonable fee you can experience slinging a big muscle car around a road course
    Are you giving up Spec Miata, or doing both?
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    If you can sit tight for a little while Grey, I'll be buying a caged dirt oval car. Presumably the car can have the setup changed to turn both ways and do asphalt. For a reasonable fee you can experience slinging a big muscle car around a road course
    yeah but i had plan for the stang to be my DD/occasional track car, cant DD a dirt oval late model

  19. #59
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyFocus View Post
    yeah but i had plan for the stang to be my DD/occasional track car, cant DD a dirt oval late model
    Actually you can, but it's not at all recommended. A local drives his oval car to the track and swaps the lights in and out.


    Richard, I am doing it all.

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    Pro Lurker GreyFocus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Actually you can, but it's not at all recommended. A local drives his oval car to the track and swaps the lights in and out.


    Richard, I am doing it all.
    yeah im sure that'll go fine in LA traffic LOL

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