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Thread: Test drove the big 3 HD trucks back to back to back

  1. #21
    Senior Member e5pr1t's Avatar
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    Did you look into airbags for the rear? That will not change the ride quality comparing to the leaf springs.

    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    I went further down this rabbit hole.

    2011 Ram Crew Cab 4WD SRW
    Attachment 11544

    Also strange the base weight drops by 150 lbs from a 2500 to 3500
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    Señor Member b3d3g1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by e5pr1t View Post
    The difference in the 3500 though. 2017 have close to 4000LB of payload & 2011 3500 have only 3000LB of payload.
    That might be a Dual rear wheel vs Single rear wheel config difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by e5pr1t View Post
    Did you look into airbags for the rear? That will not change the ride quality comparing to the leaf springs.
    I'm generally not a big fan of airbags but maybe its just unknown to me. I guess you're just adjusting preload without compressing the spring.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member e5pr1t's Avatar
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    No,

    2017 3500 crew cab 4x4 (long box) dually w/cummins has a payload of 5830 LB
    2017 3500 crew cab 4x4 short box w/cummins has a payload of 4070LB

    Maybe look into a later model (2017?) 3500 conversion?

    Alan

    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    That might be a Dual rear wheel vs Single rear wheel config difference?



    I'm generally not a big fan of airbags but maybe its just unknown to me. I guess you're just adjusting preload without compressing the spring.
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    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
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    It's funny you mention the GMC interior. Tami and I were killing some time today (I had a followup appointment for my cataract surgery) and I said "let's go check out the new Yukons" -- which, given that aside from the fact that our 2011 Suburban offers just a lay-flay third row seating and a working passenger seat heater don't bring much to the table....but boredom.

    Both of us were very unimpressed by the interior quality -- this wasn't a Denali with every box checked, no, but still, an MSRP close enough to 80 large as makes no difference.

    I'm becoming my father... "for that much money I should be able to by the dealership, if not the whole damn company!"

    (I already threw the kids off my damn lawn)

    Steve
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    It is worth noting that the F250 has much higher payload rating than the Ram 2500, in fact, it's almost as high as the Ram 3500.

    Ford tow ratings -
    https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content...tyPU_Nov27.pdf

    There's a big drop in tow ratings when going to the 4x4 in the Fords, and for a reason that is unknown to me they do not offer the 2 highest trim levels (Platinum and Limited) in 2WD so that kinda sucks because you have to buy a lower trim level or an F350 to get the tow rating AND the nicer truck.
    The King Ranch trim requires you to chew tobacco and take your cousin on a date or two before you can buy it, so that's a no thanks from me.

    Ram tow and payload ratings -
    https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-gui...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

    The Ram 2500 payloads are really low, so that's not even an option with a big 5th wheel / gooseneck.
    Going to the 3500 also gets you the option of buying it with the 6 speed Aisin trans which is great, but pricing creeps up closer to the Fords by the time you have the nicer interior and all, and at the end the Ford is still way nicer inside and the ride quality is unmatched.
    This will be a tough choice at the end.

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    Señor Member b3d3g1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    This will be a tough choice at the end.
    Sounds like you've already made up your mind.
    -Anthony
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    I like the Ford better, but annoyed at the fact that I'll have to get a 4WD truck to get the nicer trim, which then forces me into getting the F350 instead of the F250 that would do fine in the 2WD version.
    The Dodge is the better deal, how much better remains to be seen.
    Huntington beach Dodge has some great deals on the trucks they have in stock...

  8. #28
    likes to left foot brake. passmenow's Avatar
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    Costco or AAA offer some nice fleet discounts on new trucks.
    No haggle pricing.
    Got the extended 6 year warrenty too.
    It's been 3 years with our 2014 Ram 3500 crewcab dually diesel all good except a handful of factory recalls.
    I towed with a 99 Powerstroke for 10 years but towing now with the new trucks feels much safer.
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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Have you considered a class C RV as your tow vehicle and a small enclosed trailer? Then get something like a Tacoma with a long bed as your DD/work truck? That's the direction I'm heading after owning a truck and travel trailer.
    A motor home will be much better for the family too.
    Last edited by Red_5; 04-28-2018 at 11:46 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    Have you considered a class C RV as your tow vehicle and a small enclosed trailer? Then get something like a Tacoma with a long bed as your DD/work truck?
    Why would I do that?
    That way you need to buy 3 vehicles instead of two, one is a bunch of money and doesn't get used much (Class C, which is also likely to sleep less people than a big toy hauler), the other is a trailer that will overload the Class C if it's any decent size and to top it off I get a crappy DD instead of a nice luxurious truck that has a ton more room in it.
    That's a no from me.

  11. #31
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    You could likely buy all 3 vehicles I mentioned for less than the price of a fancy 1 ton truck and toy hauler. You don't have to DD a big ass truck. You can use a Class C type RV easier and more frequently than you likely would a big toy hauler. You're smart enough to get the proper trailer that would work with your RV. Ask William how often he uses his RV outside of racing. Did I mention you don't have to pull over for your kids to pee? You can easily take a Class C to the beach for the day. Camping close to LA will be easier with a <30' RV

    I don't know how many people you need to sleep in the RV but 4 comfortably is no problem. Spend a little more money and I've seen some with bunk beds too.

    Purely for business needs, other than driving a big ass truck everyday, I see the benefit of the truck and toy hauler. Once you add in the family element I like the RV better.
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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Surprised by this. I have my buddies 2017 F250 lariat crew cab in my driveway right now and it feels tiny inside compared to my 2015 mega cab. Also find the interior to be worse in general in terms of layout and styling. Maybe the platinum is that much better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    I went further down this rabbit hole.
    I've been down this rabbit hole recently. Every single standard published GVWR for a pickup truck is set at a specific number for legal reasons.

    Most states add additional licensing or tax requirements on trucks at 10,001+ GVWR. In the US, Class 2 is <=10k, Class 3 is >10k. Thus, all 250/2500 trucks have a GVWR of 10,000lbs. Some states add these fees at 10,000lbs. Ford actually has a fleet program option that will let you de-rate the GVWR tag on their trucks to avoid these fees.

    Some (CA, specifically) add substantial extra registration fees on any truck with a GVWR of 11,501 or higher. Thus, all SRW 350/3500s have a GVWR of 11,500 or thereabouts. These CA fees can be massive if you tow a heavy trailer as well, because the extra reg fees are based on the total max GCWR. So if you tow a 9,000lb trailer with your 9,000lb dually, you have to pay reg fees for up to 20k GCWR, and it adds several hundred dollars each year to the reg fee bill.

    All 350/3500 DRW and the F450 Pickup (NOT the cab/chassis) are rated at 14,000lbs. Class 3 is <=14k, so beyond 14,000lbs it's considered a class 4 truck, and the MFG can no longer advertise "best in class towing"

    Class 4 trucks are things like the Ram 4500/5500s and F450 cab/chassis (the F450 cab/chassis is a completely different vehicle from the F450 pickup).

    Payload specs are absolutely meaningless. Max payload published by the MFGs assumes you bought a zero-options work truck, run it 2.5 quarts low on oil, a few cups of diesel in the tank, no urea, etc, etc. Real-world payload capacity is GVWR - real curb weight, because that's what you'll be measured on if you ever get scaled. Most of these trucks with options weigh 8000-8500lbs in diesel leather trim. Thus, a 2500 has ~2k of payload, a 3500 SRW has 3500lbs, and a 3500 DRW has ~6k of payload. The DRW truck has to worry about axle and tire limits because if you put all 6k on the pin, you'll exceed those limits, but for the SRW trucks, you'll likely exceed GVWR before you exceed axle or tire limits.

    In CA, the perfect tow rig is the 3500 SRW in whichever flavor you prefer (shortbed or longbed). 11,500 GVWR is low enough to stay exempt from CVRA but high enough to deal with 4 adults, luggage, and tongue weight from a 10,000lb trailer (which is the largest non-RV trailer you can pull in CA without a CDL-A).
    Last edited by Savington; 04-28-2018 at 10:10 PM.
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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savington View Post
    Payload specs are absolutely meaningless. Max payload published by the MFGs assumes you bought a zero-options work truck, run it 2.5 quarts low on oil, a few cups of diesel in the tank, no urea, etc, etc. Real-world payload capacity is GVWR - real curb weight, because that's what you'll be measured on if you ever get scaled. Most of these trucks with options weigh 8000-8500lbs in diesel leather trim. Thus, a 2500 has ~2k of payload, a 3500 SRW has 3500lbs, and a 3500 DRW has ~6k of payload. The DRW truck has to worry about axle and tire limits because if you put all 6k on the pin, you'll exceed those limits, but for the SRW trucks, you'll likely exceed GVWR before you exceed axle or tire limits.

    In CA, the perfect tow rig is the 3500 SRW in whichever flavor you prefer (shortbed or longbed). 11,500 GVWR is low enough to stay exempt from CVRA but high enough to deal with 4 adults, luggage, and tongue weight from a 10,000lb trailer (which is the largest non-RV trailer you can pull in CA without a CDL-A).
    That's why it's important to look at the door sticker on the actual truck you intend to buy because 1, it will be more accurate based on the specific truck's equipment and 2, that's what the LEO will work off of if you ever get scaled.

    I think the brochure payload for my 1500 Max Tow was around 2,000 pounds but the sticker on the door says a number in the 1700s after adding sunroof, side steps, 4wd . . .
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    Surprised by this. I have my buddies 2017 F250 lariat crew cab in my driveway right now and it feels tiny inside compared to my 2015 mega cab. Also find the interior to be worse in general in terms of layout and styling. Maybe the platinum is that much better?
    Don't know man, to me it seemed like the F250/350 crew cab was roughly the same size as the mega minus the extra storage behind the back seat, but maybe a touch more vertical space in the Ford (both are fine).
    I'm heading out to the dealership in a bit, I guess I need to take a look in the Lariat and Platinum and see how much of a difference there is.

    Eric, we'll agree to disagree

    Andrew, thanks for the info!
    My understanding is that to drive what I'm looking to buy I'll need a noncommercial class A license which takes care of the trailer weight limit.
    ICM Mark posted something about this a while ago, I'll try to find the thread later.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Just came back from another F350 test drive, this time a Lariat trim package.
    There are a few differences that are worth mentioning - inside it's mostly some differences in trim pieces materials, but the seats in the Platinum are a bit nicer though the ones in the Lariat are fine too.
    Both seats offer heating and air conditioning, but only the Platinum has the massagers... Laugh all you want, this is going to be nice on a long drive (I can already see Carl yelling something about first world problems, and get off my lawn, kids!), wife did not mind it either.
    There are a few more bits like aux switches that come as standard in the Platinum and such.. Nothing radical other than the upgraded seats.

    Outside, the Lariat has the fixed running boards which I hate universally on all trucks, the Platinum has automatic running boards that deploy when you open a door and retract when you close it...
    Not a big deal, but it does look nicer without those stupid things sticking down the sides and the kids definitely have easier time climbing in.
    Most of the Platinums I've seen also come with optional upgraded headlights.

    The biggest difference is in the steering.
    The Lariat has the standard steering that the trucks come with, the Platinum is equipped with the adaptive steering system which was a marked improvement.
    You can option a Lariat with the adaptive steering for ~$700 if so desired.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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  18. #38
    likes to left foot brake. passmenow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Just came back from another F350 test drive (I can already see Carl yelling something about first world problems
    Yes but I am also very practical. I say go for the platinum with all the bells and whistles. Use IRS rule 179 and write your business truck off at the accelerated rate.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    You are pretty much spot on, on all accounts.
    I have decided on getting the F350 Platinum SRW with all the bells and whistles.

    Passmenow, you missed the best one -

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