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Thread: Worn tires = heated brakes?

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    I am going back again this weekend. I will be replacing the fluid (as opposed to just bleeding it -right?)
    and I will be trying out HP+ pads in the front. This will change the brake bias to the front but I think its fine being that the car is so heavy overall and I should get a little more turn in.

    Now here is the question:

    I have been reading the some pads' dust is highly corrosive when wet and will damage the finish on the wheels. Is this true?

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    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    Hmmm? I can't say I have experienced that green fade with the Hawk DTC-70 and Raybestos 47s I run.
    I have heard of but never experienced green fade ever either but I also don't scrub new race tires or use factory recommended tire pressures...I just put them on and go race at dangerously low cold pressures.

    If I have time, I will on a new rotor bed-in pads not for sake of the pad but to impart a transfer layer on the rotor. I actually think this helps with "initial" brake modulation. Done once for a new rotor and never bed-in successive new pads (of the same brand/model pad) and its good until the rotors need to be replaced. You don't have to do this because the trasfer layer will come with just use. But I like to do it because usually that 1st use on new rotors and new pads will come in a race. I want my Turn 1 braking experience to be a good one and so do those door handle to door handle around me.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxSTI View Post
    and I will be trying out HP+ pads in the front. This will change the brake bias to the front but I think its fine being that the car is so heavy overall and I should get a little more turn in.

    Now here is the question:

    I have been reading the some pads' dust is highly corrosive when wet and will damage the finish on the wheels. Is this true?
    1. stickier the tire, more front bias you need. an extreme example: a mini van running on all weather tires on same brake compound all the way around, comes from factory perfectly modulated. you throw on race tire, it will slow down at higher G. requiring more front bias. same thing with your STI.

    2. yes, some race pads will eat wheel paint if they get wet and you don't clean them off right away. another reason why you shouldn't go for $2,000 wheels for track use.
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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    FoxSTI, I think you need to get past the notion that your track/race car will look good. Driving a car hard on the track and having it look good are two opposing objectives unless you triple your annual track budget.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    FoxSTI, I think you need to get past the notion that your track/race car will look good. Driving a car hard on the track and having it look good are two opposing objectives unless you triple your annual track budget.
    yes an no. meaning I agree with you to some extent.
    For example the question about the brake dust some thing I wanted to know legitimately because it just sounded crazy. But now that I know, well I just know that I will make so dip my wheels eventually ect.
    I know the car will scuffs etc. It actually pains me to write this, but its the truth. As someone told me, if I want a garage show queen, then I need to keep in the garage and not drive it at all.

    Last time i was at the track, interestingly enough, the faster Porsches and track only cars had their imperfections. I am with you, but to some extent going back to the brake dust, it is just good info to know. Now I know my "expensive" wheels will get ruined by brake dust before a misshaph lol

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    anyway, so going back to my original question, I think I just had the perfect mix for what happened.
    Wrong pads, hadn't bleed my brakes in 4 events, and old tires...

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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxSTI View Post
    I am with you, but to some extent going back to the brake dust, it is just good info to know. Now I know my "expensive" wheels will get ruined by brake dust before a misshaph lol
    Save money and buy used wheels. If you track a lot your wheels will never be the same as new. Or loan them to me and let me break them in for you.... ;-)
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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxSTI View Post
    anyway, so going back to my original question, I think I just had the perfect mix for what happened.
    Wrong pads, hadn't bleed my brakes in 4 events, and old tires...
    The first two as the third has nothing to do with it... or add in that you have old fluid that was probably soaking up a ton of moisture.
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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    BTW - oftentimes intermediate drivers are actually harder on the brakes than really experienced drivers as the intermediates often over-brake and over-slow, brake more often and frequently are running with some form of stability control that is applying brakes mid-turn and on exit as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    BTW - oftentimes intermediate drivers are actually harder on the brakes than really experienced drivers as the intermediates often over-brake and over-slow, brake more often and frequently are running with some form of stability control that is applying brakes mid-turn and on exit as well.
    I am running it with ESC on...and I do not know what to expect if I turn it off. Honestly I am a little scared. It is very possible that is also adding to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxSTI View Post
    I am running it with ESC on...and I do not know what to expect if I turn it off. Honestly I am a little scared. It is very possible that is also adding to it.
    Learn to run with it off. You will develop bad habits if you don't or will always need it if you do. But be smart. 1st session run with it on to get your muscle memory back. Then run in sport mode if you have it session 2 then run with it off but a few tenths off your comp mode effort. In other words work up to it. This sport is supposed to be fun not scare you or cost you to have to take the bus monday morning because you wrecked. Also be smart about where you learn to push it like running hot into T1 Daytona is a much better choice than T1 at Sebring because there is much more runoff. Then when the track gets damp leave TC on and enjoy.

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    Thank you, I will try that. I want to ask a semi related question - sort of a sidebar.
    Do you guys drive on the kerbs purposely? or is that a bad custom?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxSTI View Post
    Thank you, I will try that. I want to ask a semi related question - sort of a sidebar.
    Do you guys drive on the kerbs purposely? or is that a bad custom?
    is it faster ? if so, yes.

    but if you have crappy suspension, more likely to be slower going over kerbs. That's why racers spends thousands if not tens of thousands on suspension. if track is perfectly flat, you don't need no fancy suspension.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    FoxSTI, I think you need to get past the notion that your track/race car will look good. Driving a car hard on the track and having it look good are two opposing objectives unless you triple your annual track budget.
    I've learned to settle for clean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxSTI View Post
    Thank you, I will try that. I want to ask a semi related question - sort of a sidebar.
    Do you guys drive on the kerbs purposely? or is that a bad custom?
    It depends on the curbs, too. At Willow Springs you can't use the curbs because they're more like actual residential street curbs than racetrack curbing. At Buttonwillow, Auto Club Speedway, Sonoma, Mazda Raceway, yes. Most of the curbing at those tracks is built to be driven on, to a certain extent.

    Your tracks are what? Homestead, Sebring and Daytona? If memory serves, those tracks have the wide, flat curbing that you can use to your advantage. Some of the curbs will help turn the car at the apex.

    As a general rule, don't brake on them (one wheel on and one wheel off) because that'll send you off track in a hurry, and don't use painted curbs in the rain, which you probably will experience during a track day in Florida.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    It depends on the curbs, too. At Willow Springs you can't use the curbs because they're more like actual residential street curbs than racetrack curbing. At Buttonwillow, Auto Club Speedway, Sonoma, Mazda Raceway, yes. Most of the curbing at those tracks is built to be driven on, to a certain extent.

    Your tracks are what? Homestead, Sebring and Daytona? If memory serves, those tracks have the wide, flat curbing that you can use to your advantage. Some of the curbs will help turn the car at the apex.

    As a general rule, don't brake on them (one wheel on and one wheel off) because that'll send you off track in a hurry, and don't use painted curbs in the rain, which you probably will experience during a track day in Florida.
    yes I track homestead, daytona and PBIR - have not the oportunity to do sebring yet.
    they have flat kerbing and some vert shallow ones.

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    $2000 for wheels is not that expensive. It's around 500 for one. Some spec of JDM wheels cost $5000. They look really legit but $.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    I've learned to settle for clean.
    Oh **** that.

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