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Thread: how fast could a stock STI run?

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    Question how fast could a stock STI run at buttonwillow ?

    Currently running a everything full stock 2015 STI(VA) with street tire(200tw Dunlop z2).Obviously, STI is not a popular "buttonwillow choice" compared to some other JDM like s2000 or FRS.
    The only change is I did alignment. Max stock Front camber with-1.9, toe0; rear is factory spec(toe0, camber -1.0).

    I've been running buttonwillow cw13 for a year now and constantly got 2:03(14th is me: Buttonwillow Configuration 13 lap times - FastestLaps.com) last year and only one lap for 2:02.

    Wonder how fast could I run with my stock STI at buttonwillow? Is it 2:01 the limit?anyone familiar with STI?suggestions?

    I daily drive a FRS now but still love to track my VA STI.
    Thank you!
    Last edited by jqsti2015; 03-14-2017 at 03:04 PM.

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    Is this before or after your ring landings give up?

    I've heard of the STI. The stock suspension will be what holds you back. It's a pushy thing and it works the edges of the tires hard.

    Oh, and you should definitely be doing '55s easy, maybe a '54 if you try harder.

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    Hahaha

    Thank you for replying
    I've read some tips from you about subaru, which helps me a lot.

    I find out Ringland very rarely gives up when it's full stock. It starts to break after 300whp tune. Stock tune is only about 240whp.Same story with my FRS's FA20: stock engine is fine but don't tune it hard.

    Maybe it'll break after 100k miles, but my car is still at 30k. Definitely sell them after drivetrain warranty(70k miles)

    Sad thing is subaru doesn't have a better engine than 15 year old EJ now. SuperGT BRZ still uses old EJ.
    Last edited by jqsti2015; 03-14-2017 at 07:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanB View Post
    Is this before or after your ring landings give up?

    I've heard of the STI. The stock suspension will be what holds you back. It's a pushy thing and it works the edges of the tires hard.

    Oh, and you should definitely be doing '55s easy, maybe a '54 if you try harder.
    I'm satisfied by the stock suspension by far, which at least performs better than my FRS stock suspension.
    A lot sharper in some narrow road.

    Planning to modify my FRS suspension to JDM spec brz Ts strut and spring.
    Last edited by jqsti2015; 03-14-2017 at 06:53 PM.

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    Yes, leave it stock. The biggest clouds of smoke I've ever seen at a racetrack always have emanated from an overly modified Subaru.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    Yes, leave it stock. The biggest clouds of smoke I've ever seen at a racetrack always have emanated from an overly modified Subaru.
    Agree.
    Last edited by jqsti2015; 03-15-2017 at 12:29 AM.

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    It sounds like you're driving well. Re: lap times, hard to say. I can tell you that the only lap time that matters is yours. You can certainly go faster, and you will - the more you drive.

    What other people are doing doesn't matter unless you're competing under the same rules. For racers lap times only matter on the same day, same competition. It's not a static baseline, at best a reference. Weather and track conditions can influence whole seconds, even in the dry.

    FWIW - my STI's rings were damaged most likely due to a distinct fuel starve event in hard corning at >1/3 tank, T2 SoWS. My 33K-ish motor was 100% factory stock (which was part of the problem due to factory lean). It developed an unhealthy thirst for dinosaur smoothies thereafter. Motor grenaded at Fontana about a year later WOT in NASA TT. That wasn't the last time.

    Any way, enjoy the car. You're doing great. Keep at it and beat that 2.02x.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanB View Post
    It sounds like you're driving well. Re: lap times, hard to say. I can tell you that the only lap time that matters is yours. You can certainly go faster, and you will - the more you drive.

    What other people are doing doesn't matter unless you're competing under the same rules. For racers lap times only matter on the same day, same competition. It's not a static baseline, at best a reference. Weather and track conditions can influence whole seconds, even in the dry.

    FWIW - my STI's rings were damaged most likely due to a distinct fuel starve event in hard corning at >1/3 tank, T2 SoWS. My 33K-ish motor was 100% factory stock (which was part of the problem due to factory lean). It developed an unhealthy thirst for dinosaur smoothies thereafter. Motor grenaded at Fontana about a year later WOT in NASA TT. That wasn't the last time.

    Any way, enjoy the car. You're doing great. Keep at it and beat that 2.02x.
    Do you think 200tw street tire is safe due to relatively low G force?
    Last edited by jqsti2015; 03-15-2017 at 01:59 AM.

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    Yes. A 200utqg tire is an excellent place to be. Good compromise of grip, feedback, and potential for recovery at excess slip angle. And possibly a more "neutral" sensation on factory suspension than say a significantly grippier tire like an rcomp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanB View Post
    Yes. A 200utqg tire is an excellent place to be. Good compromise of grip, feedback, and potential for recovery at excess slip angle. And possibly a more "neutral" sensation on factory suspension than say a significantly grippier tire like an rcomp.
    thx for your tips.
    I'll upload my video here once I reach 2:01, looking for more suggestions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanB View Post
    It sounds like you're driving well. Re: lap times, hard to say. I can tell you that the only lap time that matters is yours. You can certainly go faster, and you will - the more you drive.

    What other people are doing doesn't matter unless you're competing under the same rules. For racers lap times only matter on the same day, same competition. It's not a static baseline, at best a reference. Weather and track conditions can influence whole seconds, even in the dry.
    This is a nice, encouraging, general philosophy, but I have found that it is easy to think you are at the limit until you see what a better driver can do in an equally prepared car. Knowing that your car can go faster is a great source of motivation, even if it can be humbling. For an extreme example, consider how long it took for humans to break the 4 minute mile. Then once it had been done, it became relatively common. KNOWING you can go faster is different than just TRYING to go faster.

    Disclaimer: this may or may not be based on my experience of buying a Supermiata from Emilio, and having the luxury of comparing my lap times to his old lap times in the same car at every race I enter . . .
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    200tw don't mean a thing these days......

    upload video and someone here will tell you how much time you left on the table...

    but I wouldn't bother pushing a STI, it is only matter of time that it goes kaboom.. consider yourself lucky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    200tw don't mean a thing these days......

    upload video and someone here will tell you how much time you left on the table...

    but I wouldn't bother pushing a STI, it is only matter of time that it goes kaboom.. consider yourself lucky.
    Haha maybe.
    Did a leak down test a few months ago and everything showed perfectly after 25 track days and 15000miles hard driving(lots of back road...I'm a ricer).

    I think EJ is definitely not a reliable engine but if maintained carefully, it sill could last a long time. I very rarely saw a piston ring issue on stock engine in newer model(2011+).....most common issue is rod bearing knock due to lack of engine oil or maintenance.
    Last edited by jqsti2015; 03-15-2017 at 12:42 PM.

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    were you experienced before this car ? it could be your first 20 track days were driving so slow car never stressed. now you are much faster, the harder you will be on the car.......
    story: I talked to a Tesla S driver at a track, seen him tracking that same S many many track days in the past. so I asked him what mod he made that it didn't go into "limp" mode after 1/2 lap. He looked at me puzzled..........saying his car is stock........
    I know Miata, I can tell you that $5k turbo Miata are super reliable at 2:10s. you start to go sub 2:05s, then it gets a little less reliable. as you hit sub 2s, it falls apart. as you hit sub 1:55s, they catch on fire while sitting in pit.


    why live with a time bomb.....you sound like a season track'er (25 days is quite a bit). time for you to get a reliable dedicated track car.

    Quote Originally Posted by jqsti2015 View Post
    Haha maybe.
    Did a leak down test a few months ago and everything showed perfectly after 25 track days and 15000miles hard driving(lots of back road...I'm a ricer).

    I think EJ is definitely not a reliable engine but if maintained carefully, it sill could last a long time. I very rarely saw a piston ring issue on stock engine in newer model(2011+).....most common issue is rod bearing knock due to lack of engine oil or maintenance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    were you experienced before this car ? it could be your first 20 track days were driving so slow car never stressed. now you are much faster, the harder you will be on the car.......
    story: I talked to a Tesla S driver at a track, seen him tracking that same S many many track days in the past. so I asked him what mod he made that it didn't go into "limp" mode after 1/2 lap. He looked at me puzzled..........saying his car is stock........
    I know Miata, I can tell you that $5k turbo Miata are super reliable at 2:10s. you start to go sub 2:05s, then it gets a little less reliable. as you hit sub 2s, it falls apart. as you hit sub 1:55s, they catch on fire while sitting in pit.


    why live with a time bomb.....you sound like a season track'er (25 days is quite a bit). time for you to get a reliable dedicated track car.
    Yes, I used to own mazdaspeed3 and miata.

    Being a dedicated ricer, I run my cars very hard in back road(redline every gear) and spent lots of time there, way more than some 20 or 30 track days. E.g. I left home at midnight and went to hwy1 sometimes.
    I own two subaru engine(BRZ's FA20 and STI's EJ)and they both seem to be healthy in past few years.
    They are hard to tune but for stock motor reliability is ok.

    I don't track them on hot summer days. maybe that's the reason.
    Last edited by jqsti2015; 03-15-2017 at 05:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    ...time for you to get a reliable dedicated track car.
    I agree with the conclusion ...but the supporting turbo miata example doesn't sound so convincing. It reads like the dedicated track car is the time bomb. I agree with that too. It is.

    All race cars are in an ongoing fail state. Question of when, where, and how you finally find out about it.

    Most of us get into this dumb sport the same way. We do a few track days and catch the bug. We somehow naively and miraculously manage to avoid most of the risks that lead to attrition. And one fine day it occurs to us that spending a small fortune on race cars is a really good idea. And it's not a good idea. It's a great idea!

    The Subaru is like most newish street cars - buy now, pay later. Most people can blissfully run the car hard and most cars will be reliable (amazingly so, for awhile). The big question is if your track wheels are your street wheels, and how that impacts you. So, going back to that fail state thing and how you finally find out about it... there are some things you don't want to discover later. Like safety gear tends to be better in a prepped race car. Or that it's rare to write off a race car when you hit something.

    In any event, I think I can speak for a lot of people here when I say that we like to see people graduate to dedicated track/race cars. The sooner the better. And in the meantime now that my PSA is over, let's see you throw down some laps! That's a fine car, enjoy it.

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    And a fine PSA it was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanB View Post
    I agree with the conclusion ...but the supporting turbo miata example doesn't sound so convincing. It reads like the dedicated track car is the time bomb. I agree with that too. It is.

    All race cars are in an ongoing fail state. Question of when, where, and how you finally find out about it.

    Most of us get into this dumb sport the same way. We do a few track days and catch the bug. We somehow naively and miraculously manage to avoid most of the risks that lead to attrition. And one fine day it occurs to us that spending a small fortune on race cars is a really good idea. And it's not a good idea. It's a great idea!

    The Subaru is like most newish street cars - buy now, pay later. Most people can blissfully run the car hard and most cars will be reliable (amazingly so, for awhile). The big question is if your track wheels are your street wheels, and how that impacts you. So, going back to that fail state thing and how you finally find out about it... there are some things you don't want to discover later. Like safety gear tends to be better in a prepped race car. Or that it's rare to write off a race car when you hit something.

    In any event, I think I can speak for a lot of people here when I say that we like to see people graduate to dedicated track/race cars. The sooner the better. And in the meantime now that my PSA is over, let's see you throw down some laps! That's a fine car, enjoy it.
    agree

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanB View Post
    . . . In any event, I think I can speak for a lot of people here when I say that we like to see people graduate to dedicated track/race cars. . . .
    But the truck-trailer thing requires a significant 'belly up to the bar' that garages, driveways, and wives, may not have room for.
    Last edited by Loose Caboose; 03-15-2017 at 10:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Caboose View Post
    But the truck-trailer thing requires a significant 'belly up to the bar' that garages, driveways, and wives, may not have room for.
    Yep.
    I love the idea that factory cars could be used on track, touge and some road trip with friends. That's why I'm so fascinated by some 35k price tag cars like FocusRS, STI and upcoming TypeR even equipped with suspension comfort mode.

    Definitely those stock cars couldn't turn in as well as Spec miatas on track and they are inevitably around 3000-3300lbs.
    Last edited by jqsti2015; 03-15-2017 at 10:47 PM.

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