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Thread: SoCal SuperMiata thread

  1. #141
    Señor Member b3d3g1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    So basically your car is 2190 comp weight.
    If I recall that is with all the factory sheet metal, a lighter HT and a Lexan windshield.
    Just to complete the data, what's your weight?
    about 210 and I had it setup to be basically empty gas tank for at comp weight.

    My point is that it is a minimum weight but you still have to be at the 16 lb/hp limit. 2300 lb = 143 hp, 2250=140 hp. If you make that much power, as E is saying he will, you have to run at that weight regardless. If you make less, you're screwed.
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  2. #142
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    Just so you know, SuperMiata has been in the works since before 949 ever raced a NASA race. We've been talking about it for years.
    If you think this class isn't being built upon an epic amount of butthurt, you've got your eyes closed. However, that said, race organizations that AREN'T founded on butthurt of some sort probably don't exist. Just ask the Porsche club, or the BMW club, or...
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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    If you think this class isn't being built upon an epic amount of butthurt, you've got your eyes closed. However, that said, race organizations that AREN'T founded on butthurt of some sort probably don't exist. Just ask the Porsche club, or the BMW club, or...
    I don't know Rob, I started this thread and no one asked me too. Most people who are interested in this class don't have issue with NASA. Yes Emilio and William probably won't put NASA races ahead of SPM races anymore - I'm guessing but don't want to speak for them. Also, when was the CVR SPM race? Well before the NASA Championships.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    Personally I think that some room should be provided for minimal aero, lightweight panels, etc. - it's "Super" Miata after all. In terms of image, and as this catches on and gains more attention, you don't want everyone looking at those guys in SoCal who are playing around with miatas that look and go like spec miatas. There should be something "super" about them. They should be something identifiably different, so you don't have to explain to each person that while it may look like an average spec miata with a different logo on the windshield, it has different rules about stuff under the skin, so take our word for it, it's different..

    -Ryan
    Ding ding ding ding!!!! from a spectator and fellow miata enthusiest this is the draw for me. At CVR we had two windscreen less cars out there with pte and ptd cars. It was awesmoe seeing so many different configurations turning competitive lap times and mixing it up. if we ban outside of the box beercan engineering cars from the equation this becomes just another pte/ptd clone. IMO ensuring crossover is paramount... but also finding a place for a wide variety of cars (like the miata challenge) competing with each other is a very close #2.

  5. #145
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebruner View Post
    Ding ding ding ding!!!! from a spectator and fellow miata enthusiest this is the draw for me. At CVR we had two windscreen less cars out there with pte and ptd cars. It was awesmoe seeing so many different configurations turning competitive lap times and mixing it up. if we ban outside of the box beercan engineering cars from the equation this becomes just another pte/ptd clone. IMO ensuring crossover is paramount... but also finding a place for a wide variety of cars (like the miata challenge) competing with each other is a very close #2.
    What you are missing is that PT rules allow a huge cross section of cars even within the same platform. SPM would be a PT clone if we made the rules wide open.

    So it is crystal clear to everyone reading this, our team has figured out how to build the lowest cost track Miata. We figured out a rule set that makes it exceedingly difficult to spend more than our target build cost. So that
    will be the rule set. Mission statement is: safe, cheap, fun.

    To regulate a wide variety of "beercan engineered" cars means extra rules and extra work at events to equalize the cars. Control peak power, weight and tires and there isn't much left to work with to gain an advantage. You simply have to employ better racecraft. Thus, we have our formula.

    I get that everyone that already has a car will plead "let me run my way-not SPM car and just figure out a way for me to not spend any more on it and also equalize it". Unfortunately, I can't do both effectively, so I won't try.
    For the time being, we'll allow non-SPM's to run just to fill the field. At some point, this being a series and all, we have to insist drivers bring SPM's to race, earn points and schwag.

    The rules draft posted earlier is just that. It will be fleshed out.

    Hood vents fine. Why? Because they are almost free and work.
    Side mirrors? Free. Why? you get the idea.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    If you think this class isn't being built upon an epic amount of butthurt, you've got your eyes closed. However, that said, race organizations that AREN'T founded on butthurt of some sort probably don't exist. Just ask the Porsche club, or the BMW club, or...
    You can be such an ignorant cock sometimes dude.

    Behind the scenes, the bulk of the team had decided earlier this year to skip most of the WERC series and PT for 2014 simply to save money. Notice we didn't do August's 6hr for points as a team?
    The first ever SuperMiata test race at CVR was many months ago. Crusher and Miller were put up for sale before nationals.
    Aaron and I had things mapped out months ago. What changed for me personally in the last week was the decision to switch from very limited NASA participation in 2014 to no NASA participation in 2014.
    My desire to create a series with bigger fields, lower cost racing and more enjoyable to drive cars has never waned.

    SuperMiata has been in the works for a while and you know it.
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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  7. #147
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    I have read it all and it's confusing. Lets only talk in terms of comp weight not what a car weighs without a driver. An empty car's weight is meaningless.
    It means something when you're trying to determine the min comp weight

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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    It means something when you're trying to determine the min comp weight
    Unless the car is racing without a driver than no it doesn't. There are at least 50 pounds difference in the weight of various drivers that's why the min comp weight should be factored with the driver at the end of a race.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    It means something when you're trying to determine the min comp weight
    Moti, in the w2w world, few will talk about bare car weight when all that matters is what it weighs in impound. To reduce confusion in this discussion, we should probably stick to any reference to total weight as
    what it weighs in impound, with driver, helmet & gear, cool suit, fuel, tire clag, jelly beans, toll road transponders, etc.
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    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  10. #150
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Moti, in the w2w world, few will talk about bare car weight when all that matters is what it weighs in impound. To reduce confusion in this discussion, we should probably stick to any reference to total weight as
    what it weighs in impound, with driver, helmet & gear, cool suit, fuel, tire clag, jelly beans, toll road transponders, etc.
    nitrous bottle too....they are heavy !! but does get lighter every time you use it...
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    E & E, take a breathe guys
    We were discussing the empty weight of the car because the comp weight (at impound) is in part a derivative of what the car weighs by itself, not just the weight of the driver, cool suit, jelly beans, sleeping bag and a pillow for the oval at ACS etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    nitrous bottle too....they are heavy !! but does get lighter every time you use it...
    I know that my head gets a lot lighter every time my dentist uses it!

  13. #153
    I wanna go fast! thepass's Avatar
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    E - I'm not suggesting allowing wild variation in the builds for SPM, and I'm also not suggesting anything to make it easier for me to fit my car in - I realize and have to accept that I'd have to change basically.... well, everything. What I am saying is that in the big picture for the potential future of the series, some variation in the builds is important for many reasons, to keep things interesting for veterans and newcommers alike. 949 figured out the best recipe for a PTE/D car as well as how to make a fast miata on a budget through several years of development and work. But it would be shortsighted to say "ok our work is done, that's as good as it can get". Focus #1 is of course close racing, but I think that painting the series into a corner with only allowing one cookie-cutter build hurts the series is more ways than are evident on the surface. Allowing some flexibility gives companies like 949 room to develop parts, gives competitors some fun in deciding in some areas how they want to tweak their cars, creates a more interesting field for the nation that will be watching/keeping tabs, lives up to the phrase "super miata" a little more, etc. I'm not saying make allowances to run superchargers and turbos, but this is in response to posts such as when you were asking which of the two air dams should be allowed - there's no reason why people shouldn't be able to pick between either one, not just vote now and then only one nose is allowed, ever. It's already a one-make series, it's not that difficult to allow some flexibility/room for variation and have all the equality you want.

    -Ryan
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  14. #154
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    E & E, take a breathe guys
    We were discussing the empty weight of the car because the comp weight (at impound) is in part a derivative of what the car weighs by itself, not just the weight of the driver, cool suit, jelly beans, sleeping bag and a pillow for the oval at ACS etc...
    My last post was made quickly in the parking lot of the grocery store, just being brief and didn't feel like emoticons. Emilio said it better than me but I'm just trying to avoid the confusion that's already happening in this conversation. Comp weight is the weight at the end of the race with driver and gear in the car.
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  15. #155
    Senior Member granth's Avatar
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    so just for FUN guys how about this as some marketing hype.

    Super"Spec" 949 Miata racing seires

    tag line: We drive "flat out" in your fathers spec miata

  16. #156
    Señor Member b3d3g1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granth View Post
    so just for FUN guys how about this as some marketing hype.

    Super"Spec" 949 Miata racing seires

    tag line: We drive "flat out" in your fathers spec miata
    Don't quit your day job...
    -Anthony
    1991 Miata - Trogdor SuperMiata
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    Allowing some flexibility gives companies like 949 room to develop parts
    Developing new "must have" parts is counter to the mission statement. SuperMiata is not about me selling parts. If it was, the rules would be my website .
    What I personally want for my SPM entry is as many stock parts as I can run and still have it be fun and reliable on pump gas. I don't need a $3500 custom tuned OS Giken and 4.875 R&P to accomplish that and neither does anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    Allowing some flexibility.. gives competitors some fun in deciding in some areas how they want to tweak their car
    You just described PT. Room to tweak. Not what this series is about. It's about racecraft (free), learning how align it (free), set correct pressures (free) and that's about it. Not which wing ($$) to go with, what compression ratio ($$$), what cam ($$), which Hoosier to run ($$$$) etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    Allowing some flexibility .. creates a more interesting field for the nation that will be watching/keeping tabs, lives up to the phrase "super miata" a little more, etc.
    You know what will draw everyones interest (including yours) better than sexy cars? Close, cheap, safe racing. Did I mention cheap?

    Spec Miata is as successful as it is because it provides big fields and close racing. The only two real gripes I ever hear from either those in SM or those contemplating it is the cost required to run at the front and the frequency of contact. Other than that it's a successful formula. I'm hoping to address both of those concerns with SuperMiata. Maybe I'll fail but I know that keeping the cars the same spec, monitoring peak power and not providing incentives to cheat (contingencies and nationals), we are on the right track.

    An open rule set for equalizing a variety of builds already exists, Performance Touring. We worked for almost 3 years to get people to build Miatas for just one of the 5 classes. We grew it to 6 cars, 3 of which were ours then gave up. Because we ended up being pretty good at building PTE cars, others left the class. There was exactly one NA/NB in D at nationals. There were four in E. It didn't work on a national level so there is no reason to expect it to work on a regional level without contingencies no matter how passionate some of you may be about the idea. Ain't happening. The two most popular classes in US club racing are SRF and SM. The only other class that is even close is SE30, which is also a tightly defined spec class. Why so successful? Because, not in spite of, their being the lowest cost and most tightly defined spec.

    I know this sounds like I'm being impossibly hard headed but we didn't just start researching this last Sunday. Step back from your car and your build and do your best to remain 100% objective. Review all the available stats.
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    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  18. #158
    I wanna go fast! thepass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    I know this sounds like I'm being impossibly hard headed but we didn't just start researching this last Sunday. Step back from your car and your build and do your best to remain 100% objective. Review all the available stats.
    Quite the contrary. All good points and I'll concede that at the end of the day, affordability and close racing are hands down the strongest draw.

    Will there be the possibility of running MC and SPM on the same day? If the format/timing worked out similar to how it did at CVR, that would be really cool to be able to participate in both series on the same day/weekend for everyone who has so often to choose between prioritizing different series they want to do because of a limit on how many weekends they can afford (both in time and money) to spend racing. It would be really cool to be able to take qualifying times from the first or second session of SV's day, then have the SPM race around lunch, and then be able to do a couple more sessions in the afternoon that count for MC. See what class the car falls into and bring a wing along to bolt on, pull some ballast out, and be competetive in one of the MC classes too. I expect they'll be run in conjunction at the beginning but wondering if you plan to seperate them down the road?

    -Ryan
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    #13 1990 Miata
    "The sport dedicating to the spirits of time attacking motoring" -Emilio

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    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    Quite the contrary. All good points and I'll concede that at the end of the day, affordability and close racing are hands down the strongest draw.

    Will there be the possibility of running MC and SPM on the same day? If the format/timing worked out similar to how it did at CVR, that would be really cool to be able to participate in both series on the same day/weekend for everyone who has so often to choose between prioritizing different series they want to do because of a limit on how many weekends they can afford (both in time and money) to spend racing. It would be really cool to be able to take qualifying times from the first or second session of SV's day, then have the SPM race around lunch, and then be able to do a couple more sessions in the afternoon that count for MC. See what class the car falls into and bring a wing along to bolt on, pull some ballast out, and be competetive in one of the MC classes too. I expect they'll be run in conjunction at the beginning but wondering if you plan to seperate them down the road?

    -Ryan
    Good question and one we're kind of struggling with. William brought up an excellent point in that it's often difficult for racers to schedule a full weekend of racing in. What may increase attendance is having the points race on just one day.
    My thought was running the races on Sunday only. Saturday is a practice day. Any time an MC and SPM share a weekend, they will both be on Sunday.
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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  20. #160
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Default SuperMiata presented by Maxxis

    maxxis_logo.jpg
    Maxxis is now the official tire sponsor for SuperMiata. The 205/50/15 RC-1.is the spec tire. You must be on this tire to score points/schwag in 2014.
    Maxxis is working on a wider version of this tire for 2014. We'll switch to it when it becomes available. No other details on the wider one at this time. We tested prototypes
    of the wider RC-1 several months ago and we likey.

    The RC-1 is a slick pattern 100tw tire that's just a tick faster than an NT01 and lasts even longer.
    Retail is $140.68 through the Maxxis E-store
    Registered SuperMiata drivers can get this tire direct from 949 Racing at a special Racer Price. Call or email me for details.
    rc1_sm2013_0.jpg
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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