+ Reply to Thread
Page 7 of 25 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 19 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 483
Like Tree149Likes

Thread: SoCal SuperMiata thread

  1. #121
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,687
    Liked
    2339 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Not sure I understood what you're saying.
    Care to explain?
    we are talking about comp weight.
    so your 2,100LB car is ~2,270LB with you (add helmet and suit) in it ?

    but you put Aaron (since he doesn't read this thread) in it, it is 2,300LB comp weight.....add cool suit, 2,320LB...
    few other guys that we know of will have problem even meeting 2,350LB comp weight

    thus I think minimum weight needs to be 2,300LB instead of 2,250LB.
    krazik likes this.
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  2. #122
    Senior Member granth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    651
    Liked
    141 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Honestly, getting a car to 2100 Lbs. (no driver or gas) is not too difficult and requires exactly 0 aftermarket body panels.
    This can be done with nothing more than some quality time with a grinder and unbolting anything that is not required.
    Creampuff got to 1950 with all the factory sheet metal, OEM battery, full factory wiring harness but no windshield (33 Lbs with the frame) or top (say ~7-8 Lbs.).
    Plus one here 2100 is very easy even with an OEM hardtop, William you must have 100 extra pounds of wire in your car. How many redundant gauges do you have? I guess not much help when someone takes your radiator cap ;-)

  3. #123
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,687
    Liked
    2339 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by granth View Post
    Plus one here 2100 is very easy even with an OEM hardtop, William you must have 100 extra pounds of wire in your car. How many redundant gauges do you have? I guess not much help when someone takes your radiator cap ;-)
    Again. Look at the math. Unless you weigh under 140LB. Then add 10LB for helmet and suit. You are not going to be under 2,250LB minimum weight when you have a 2,100LB car.

    For someone 220LB (quite few of them here):

    2,250LB
    - 220LB
    - 10LB suit and helmet
    - 20LB cool suit setup
    --------------
    2,000LB car
    This requires lightweight body panels, wiring removal, BBK, no bumper support and lightweight battery

    2,250 min comp weight means $$$ for those that are "big framed"
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 09-12-2013 at 09:29 PM.
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  4. #124
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Northridge
    Posts
    2,232
    Liked
    1932 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    we are talking about comp weight.
    so your 2,100LB car is ~2,270LB with you (add helmet and suit) in it ?

    but you put Aaron (since he doesn't read this thread) in it, it is 2,300LB comp weight.....add cool suit, 2,320LB...
    few other guys that we know of will have problem even meeting 2,350LB comp weight

    thus I think minimum weight needs to be 2,300LB instead of 2,250LB.
    I see what you're saying, but as it sits currently my car is ~2,200 with me in it in full gear.
    This is with a lot of stuff that can come off like the wing, splitter and some additional body panels - all combined weigh more than a windshield and HT.
    So, had Creampuff been built with a Lexan windshield and a light HT which is common in our local group, it would have weighed in the mid-21XX with me in it, so even a heavy driver would have had no problem meeting the 2,250 min weight.

  5. #125
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,687
    Liked
    2339 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    I see what you're saying, but as it sits currently my car is ~2,200 with me in it in full gear.
    This is with a lot of stuff that can come off like the wing, splitter and some additional body panels - all combined weigh more than a windshield and HT.
    So, had Creampuff been built with a Lexan windshield and a light HT which is common in our local group, it would have weighed in the mid-21XX with me in it, so even a heavy driver would have had no problem meeting the 2,250 min weight.
    You are a fabricator.
    I am just based on Nemo, which has no fancy body panels (other than cheap fiberglass hard top). It also have bumper supports and nemo weighs about 2,100LB. Add a 180LB driver and 20LB cool suit. It is already at 2,300LB comp weight.

    For SPM. I would highly encourage a passenger seat for taking instructor or student out. His adds another 30LB
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  6. #126
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Northridge
    Posts
    2,232
    Liked
    1932 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    2,000LB car
    This requires lightweight body panels, wiring removal, BBK, no bumper support and lightweight battery
    Not sure why we come up with such different weights, but my car before the aero was well under 2,000 with factory body panels (lightened doors, trunk had OEM spoiler), still has the full LS package wiring harness, factory sport brakes (heaviest) and OEM battery.
    This was with only the rear bumper support in place, so add the weight of the front back in.
    Even if you added a lexan windshield and HT it would have still been under 2,000.

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    You are a fabricator.
    Right, that's why I don't expect most people to reach *my* weight, that does require more work than most people would want to tackle
    But, I do think that the 2,250 that E put initially should be completely doable.
    Last edited by Blackbird; 09-12-2013 at 09:47 PM.

  7. #127
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,687
    Liked
    2339 times

    Default

    Moti:

    Does 2,000LB have:

    Passenger seat
    Hard top (15 LB)
    Fire system (20LB)
    Cool suit
    9" wheel and 225 tires
    Big radiator
    Side mirrors (if it were up to me, I would require oem for better visibility)

    ??
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  8. #128
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Northridge
    Posts
    2,232
    Liked
    1932 times

    Default

    No passenger seat, but how many racecars out there have that included in their race weight?
    I agree with you on having a passenger seat as a good practice for those who want to get an instructor in, but I've never heard of an instructor riding along in a race.
    I have a passenger seat that I put in when I want to have an instructor with me or give someone a ride, but if I'm racing it's out.

    No HT, but I answered the question in my previous post.

    Yes on fire sys, though it's lighter than that.

    No cool suit, fresh air isn't hard to come by when there's no windshield

    Yes on 9" / 225s.

    No big rad.

    APR side mirrors and OEM center.

  9. #129
    Señor Member b3d3g1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    952
    Liked
    428 times

    Default

    my NASA comp weight is 2260 and I have 70lbs of ballast bolted in. I'm putting a passenger seat back in and I added a few pounds with aero so I can probably meet 2300 if I start with a full tank but that puts me at 18.7 lb/hp. Hopefully at the end of this year I will finally be installing a programmable ecu but my car is well under 2000 lb without doing anything drastic or expensive. Just giving another data point here but it seems to me that the minimum weight has a bigger impact cars without expensive programmable ecus.

    What about hood vents? Any reason those won't be allowed? I think they add to both the form and function and aren't allowed in SM.

    Is there an official ruling on removing side mirrors? I especially like not having one on my driver side so I can get out of my window with the door shut without ripping it off.
    Last edited by b3d3g1; 09-12-2013 at 10:40 PM.
    -Anthony
    1991 Miata - Trogdor SuperMiata
    2011 Ram 2500 - all the torque
    2016 Kawasaki Versys 650LT - commuter
    2016 KTM 690 Duke - parked at the dealer

  10. #130
    Senior Member granth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    651
    Liked
    141 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    Again. Look at the math. Unless you weigh under 140LB. Then add 10LB for helmet and suit. You are not going to be under 2,250LB minimum weight when you have a 2,100LB car.

    For someone 220LB (quite few of them here):

    2,250LB
    - 220LB
    - 10LB suit and helmet
    - 20LB cool suit setup
    --------------
    2,000LB car
    This requires lightweight body panels, wiring removal, BBK, no bumper support and lightweight battery

    2,250 min comp weight means $$$ for those that are "big framed"
    how much gas in the car did you assume? it is very common for an early NA that is prepped correct with a oem HT and steel body panels to be well under 2k. You have been living in the NB world too long. With light weight body panels sub 1900 could be done and maybe even sub 1800 with more cutting and grinding....
    Last edited by granth; 09-13-2013 at 12:15 AM.

  11. #131
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    4,211
    Liked
    716 times

    Default

    There's no way a comp weight should be under 2200 pounds. I haven't weighed my car without any ballast in quite awhile but low 2k without driver and adding cooler and all the other gear seems to be on the low side. Personally I don't car about lightweight body panels as long as cars make the minimum weight. I don't care if cars don't have bumper supports but don't complain to me when I cave in your rear bumper cover bump drafting.

    It's much easier to bolt some ballast to the floor than it is to reduce the weight.

    I would like to keep hood vents because I have them and don't want to source another hood. With an EP air dam any advantage they might have would be reduced plus they're cheap.
    Last edited by Red_5; 09-13-2013 at 06:03 AM.
    99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
    '91 Mariner Blue Miata project AKA Napoleon

  12. #132
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Northridge
    Posts
    2,232
    Liked
    1932 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    There's no way a comp weight should be under 2200 pounds.
    Please read the posts regarding weight again.
    No one asked for the comp weight to be under 2200.
    Emilio suggested 2250 as comp weight, William suggested we up that to 2300.
    I supported Emilio's suggestion and brought evidence from my car why the weight target should be no problem to get to, so did Grant, and from the rough math in my head so did Anthony.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    I haven't weighed my car without any ballast in quite awhile but low 2k without driver and adding cooler and all the other gear seems to be on the low side. Personally I don't car about lightweight body panels as long as cars make the minimum weight.
    As I recall, you're the guy that called everyone who cared about not making their car unnecessarily heavy a "weight weenie", weren't you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    I don't care if cars don't have bumper supports but don't complain to me when I cave in your rear bumper cover bump drafting.
    Bumper supports are mandatory in the rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    It's much easier to bolt some ballast to the floor than it is to reduce the weight.
    Right, but that doesn't make me want to drive a heavier car than I have to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    I would like to keep hood vents because I have them and don't want to source another hood. With an EP air dam any advantage they might have would be reduced plus they're cheap.
    Agreed.
    They also look good and help cooling, so why not.

  13. #133
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Northridge
    Posts
    2,232
    Liked
    1932 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    my NASA comp weight is 2260 and I have 70lbs of ballast bolted in. I'm putting a passenger seat back in and I added a few pounds with aero so I can probably meet 2300 if I start with a full tank but that puts me at 18.7 lb/hp. Hopefully at the end of this year I will finally be installing a programmable ecu but my car is well under 2000 lb without doing anything drastic or expensive.
    So basically your car is 2190 comp weight.
    If I recall that is with all the factory sheet metal, a lighter HT and a Lexan windshield.
    Just to complete the data, what's your weight?

  14. #134
    I wanna go fast! thepass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    726
    Liked
    587 times

    Default

    Personally I think that some room should be provided for minimal aero, lightweight panels, etc. - it's "Super" Miata after all. In terms of image, and as this catches on and gains more attention, you don't want everyone looking at those guys in SoCal who are playing around with miatas that look and go like spec miatas. There should be something "super" about them. They should be something identifiably different, so you don't have to explain to each person that while it may look like an average spec miata with a different logo on the windshield, it has different rules about stuff under the skin, so take our word for it, it's different..

    And on that note don't set the race weight higher than it needs to be - 2250 is very easy to hit. Pulling weight is nearly free. Anyone wanting to crossover from SM/PT can just pull ballast to fit into SPM. SPMs need to be turning times much better than the other similar classes out there, making the cars heavier just hinders that. Plus, it takes a special kind of someone to want to race in SM for example - someone who has little desire to be driving a thrilling car, and just wants close racing. How cool would it be for SPM to become the place to go for wheel to wheel miata racing in a miata that was actually a thrill to drive?

    -Ryan
    Last edited by thepass; 09-13-2013 at 09:02 AM.
    Ryan Passey
    Singulär Motorsports | Goodwin Racing

    #13 1990 Miata
    "The sport dedicating to the spirits of time attacking motoring" -Emilio

  15. #135
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    3,076
    Liked
    977 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    Personally I think that some room should be provided for minimal aero, lightweight panels, etc. - it's "Super" Miata after all. In terms of image, and as this catches on and gains more attention, you don't want everyone looking at those guys in SoCal who are playing around with miatas that look and go like spec miatas. There should be something "super" about them. They should be something identifiably different, so you don't have to explain to each person that while it may look like an average spec miata, it has different rules about the suspension, so take our word for it, it's different..

    -Ryan
    Even though I have no intention or interest in participating, I think this is a very important point and will be vital in getting the class to grow. I feel like there is already an "every sanctioning body has too many classes with 3 cars participating" sort of sentiment, and showing that you guys are creating something different than a NASA-spite class will help get people involved (IMHO of course).

  16. #136
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    4,211
    Liked
    716 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Please read the posts regarding weight again.
    No one asked for the comp weight to be under 2200.
    I have read it all and it's confusing. Lets only talk in terms of comp weight not what a car weighs without a driver. An empty car's weight is meaningless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    As I recall, you're the guy that called everyone who cared about not making their car unnecessarily heavy a "weight weenie", weren't you?
    That was my jealousy coming through. I had made my car reasonably light then NASA added 100 pounds to it's base class weight. But yes, you guys are weight weenies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Bumper supports are mandatory in the rules.
    Rules? I thought we were still discussing rules.
    99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
    '91 Mariner Blue Miata project AKA Napoleon

  17. #137
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    4,211
    Liked
    716 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    Personally I think that some room should be provided for minimal aero, lightweight panels, etc. - it's "Super" Miata after all. In terms of image, and as this catches on and gains more attention, you don't want everyone looking at those guys in SoCal who are playing around with miatas that look and go like spec miatas. There should be something "super" about them. They should be something identifiably different, so you don't have to explain to each person that while it may look like an average spec miata with a different logo on the windshield, it has different rules about stuff under the skin, so take our word for it, it's different..
    I agree. The cars should look visibly different from Spec Miatas and should have no problem beating SM times on cheaper, longer lasting tires.
    99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
    '91 Mariner Blue Miata project AKA Napoleon

  18. #138
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    4,211
    Liked
    716 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    Even though I have no intention or interest in participating, I think this is a very important point and will be vital in getting the class to grow. I feel like there is already an "every sanctioning body has too many classes with 3 cars participating" sort of sentiment, and showing that you guys are creating something different than a NASA-spite class will help get people involved (IMHO of course).
    Just so you know, SuperMiata has been in the works since before 949 ever raced a NASA race. We've been talking about it for years.
    99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
    '91 Mariner Blue Miata project AKA Napoleon

  19. #139
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,687
    Liked
    2339 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    That was my jealousy coming through. I had made my car reasonably light then NASA added 100 pounds to it's base class weight. But yes, you guys are weight weenies.
    that was my point. even with your NB, you are at 2,300LB.
    Nemo can't
    Enzo can't
    and I am a small driver.
    many just can't meet 2,250LB minimum comp weight
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  20. #140
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    4,211
    Liked
    716 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    that was my point. even with your NB, you are at 2,300LB.
    Nemo can't
    Enzo can't
    and I am a small driver.
    many just can't meet 2,250LB minimum comp weight
    I also weighed 25 or 30 pounds more than I do now. NB Spec Miatas would have a hard time getting below 2300 if we want to encourage crossover. They have to keep the dash, OEM hardtop with glass window and other stuff we can get rid of so keep that in mind everyone. For me, I could get my car to a 2250 comp weight or at least close enough if that's what decided - or I'll run a PTD classing on 205 tires if that's still okay.
    99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
    '91 Mariner Blue Miata project AKA Napoleon

+ Reply to Thread
Page 7 of 25 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 19 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts