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Thread: SoCal SuperMiata thread

  1. #361
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Default 1.6 build "Junior"

    Since there are so many 1.6 Spec Miatae out there, we thought it be worth seeing how competitive we can make a 1.6. Our power cap is 140whp (16.42lbs/hp) with a much better torque than a Spec Miata. The idea boils down to getting close to 1.8 power without actually spending enough to just drop a 1.8 engine in. IOW, no point in pulling the valve cover and doing cams, pistons or anything else because it's cheaper and easier to just drop a reasonably healthy junkyard Nb engine into it.

    So, starting with a very healthy but stock 1.6 long block, we'll add the following:

    $300 Racing Beat header (used)
    $476 header back 2.25" Flowmaster exhaust (new)
    $400 Megasquirt PNP1 ECU (used)
    $179 Innovate MTX WBO2 (new)
    $60 Cold air intake. Cone filter and ~22" long x 2.5" diameter aluminum pipe
    $00 E85 fuel

    About an hour on the dyno tuning it. If it comes up short of the 140whp, I don't want to drop too much weight. If we do, it might end up being a lopsided battle where the 1.8's own the bigger tracks but get out braked/turned at the "handling" tracks.
    I'm guessing it'll make around 130whp but I have been surprised by these engines before.

    Cost wise, these are basically the same mods we do to a typical 1.8 SPM build so no real extra expense. The tub we're using is an old caged 1.6 we had parked out back for a few years now. It's being dubbed Junior because it's our first 1.6 build of any kind.
    We plan to debut the car at Chuckwalla in march where I'll be racing it against all the 1.8's including my own, Super.

    1617504_631754260211469_1820657388_o.jpg
    1800051_631754316878130_829548793_o.jpg
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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  2. #362
    Senior Member Sampson Racing Radios's Avatar
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    Fun project-

    The most I got out of my old 1.6 with most of the same gear in your build + head work, was 133hp/128tq. Im sure you will do a much better job of tuning, so im betting you will make it.
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  3. #363
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sampson Racing Radios View Post
    Fun project-

    The most I got out of my old 1.6 with most of the same gear in your build + head work, was 133hp/128tq. Im sure you will do a much better job of tuning, so im betting you will make it.
    E85 is worth 5-7% but stock head. I'm anxious to get this one done. One of our local crew here, Austin Rogers, has a 1.6 spec with a new motor that he's running in SuperMiata. His will be the first to get dyno'd on E85. Probably next week.
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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  4. #364
    Senior Member Sampson Racing Radios's Avatar
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    BTW head work was about $1K.. Thats a lot of E85 to make up that delta! Going E85 is money well spent-

    I still have that head if anyone is looking?
    SRC Sampson Racing Communication
    4475 Dupont Crt #2
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  5. #365
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Injectors?

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    Senior Member albertg's Avatar
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    I'm very interested in the results. I didn't think I'd have a chance in SPM so I've given up on the idea to double dip with my na6. But if all it takes is e85 and ecu (and maybe of couple of bumpers/trunks with aero bits) to have an outside chance, then it could be fun. (Though I did see a 2:01 at the last event at BW, yikes!)

    Btw, you should probably lower the weight anyway, at least until it becomes an issue.
    Last edited by albertg; 01-29-2014 at 06:58 PM.
    1990 S2 SuperMiata

  7. #367
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Injectors?
    Math says we won't need them.. barely. Just lotsa d/c. If we run out of injector, it might be cheaper to run an AFPR, which many 1.6 SM's have already.
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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  8. #368
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    My prediction is 126whp.
    That means the car will need to weigh 2,070LB (with driver) for the same weight to power ratio as top SuperMiata.
    AFPR is more money then NB injectors
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  9. #369
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by albertg View Post
    I'm very interested in the results. I didn't think I'd have a chance in SPM so I've given up on the idea to double dip with my na6. But if all it takes is e85 and ecu (and maybe of couple of bumpers/trunks with aero bits) to have an outside chance, then it could be fun. (Though I did see a 2:01 at the last event at BW, yikes!)

    Btw, you should probably lower the weight anyway, at least until it becomes an issue.
    There are lots of us who aren't as fast as others. The more cars, the more fun the racing usually is. Come on out.
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  10. #370
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Last weekend BBQ. last picture is when the BBQ went wrong
    j/k, but this was taken during BBQ towards freeway exit. it was some walnut husk thing that somehow caught fire, it was burning for over 2 days.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_3772.jpg   image.jpg  

    img_3754.jpg   image.jpg  

    image.jpg   image.jpg  

    img_3747.jpg  
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 01-29-2014 at 08:44 PM.
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  11. #371
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by albertg View Post
    I'm very interested in the results. I didn't think I'd have a chance in SPM so I've given up on the idea to double dip with my na6. But if all it takes is e85 and ecu (and maybe of couple of bumpers/trunks with aero bits) to have an outside chance, then it could be fun. (Though I did see a 2:01 at the last event at BW, yikes!)

    Btw, you should probably lower the weight anyway, at least until it becomes an issue.
    We gave up on making a cost effective double dipper spec. Too many crap parts on Spec Miatas that hurt speed potential. Right now, all the speed (assuming equal drivers) comes from $700 worth of Hoosiers that barely lasts a weekend. That said though, you can run near the front of SuperMiata with any SM just as they sit with Hoosiers or run RC-1's and pull the restrictor on the 1.8's. The RC-1's last almost 3x as long as SM6/7's and can still cut fast laps when they have like 15 heat cycles on them. Oh yeah, racer price is $109

    Also, as Eric mentioned there is a front of the pack, mid pack and back markers just as there is in any racing. The front guys are as good as the very best in Spec Miata. So if you and your car are good enough for a podium at an SCCA major or national, then you can probably podium in SPM too. If you're midpack in Spec Miata, don't expect to show up to an SPM race with a half prepared car and waltz onto a podium driving with one hand.


    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    My prediction is 126whp.
    That means the car will need to weigh 2,070LB (with driver) for the same weight to power ratio as top SuperMiata.
    AFPR is more money then NB injectors
    NB injectors are usually $50 used then another $50 to get cleaned, give or take. They flow roughly 19% more than NA6 injectors. An AFPR can bump flow by almost 40%. but yeah, it;'s closer to $140.


    Edit for Albertg: It costs a fraction to build a front running SPM compared to a Spec Miata. That's the whole point. You're only allowed 140whp with a cap on torque and power area. So 90% of the sneaky and expensive stuff that's required in SM is instantly irrelevant. Cryo your diff for 1whp? be my guest. I'll still match your car on every straight with my POS junkyard engine running $4 pump gas. Pull the restrictor on your '99? Bring it, our 94's running $3.25/gallon E85 in junkyard engines will still smoke it. Point is, it's easy to either run up front in SPM with an SM without touching the car, it'll just cost you Hoosier money. OTOH, you can save money on Hoosiers and spend say, $3k turning it into a faster car that runs up front in SPM and requires about 80% lower tire budget. Did I mention pump gas and almost double the track time per dollar?
    Last edited by emilio700; 01-29-2014 at 10:39 PM.
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    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Default SuperMiata coaching

    We're also implementing our coaching program over the next few races. This was always part of the SuperMiata concept. To both brush up veteran club racers looking for those last few tenths and bring the newbs up to speed quickly.
    Besides the standard bench racing and video analysis we do at the 949 Racing compound every race weekend, we're also adding live on track coaching via radio. All of the front runners have onboard radios and our race team has spare handsets. We will put together a list of part, suppliers and instructions to add a headset, PTT (push to talk button) and mic to your helmet and car. We loan you a radio for one session, follow behind and also lead for a few laps. It's the best way to see what you are doing and get a feel for the correct line/entry speeds and so forth. It's free, just ask myself, William or Sonny and we'll get you set up. Sonny should have the shopping list put together soon.As a bonus for those of you that do some instruction yourself, the headset can be converted to work with a wireless chatterbox intercom system.
    bellwilliam, Red_5 and b3d3g1 like this.
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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    Emilio,

    Which Flowmaster muffler is in that setup?
    Same DBX that's in their cat back system?

  14. #374
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmoe Money View Post
    Emilio,

    Which Flowmaster muffler is in that setup?
    Same DBX that's in their cat back system?
    Change of plans as of a few hours ago. It's getting a Fujitsubo RM01A exhaust I forgot I had on the shelf. It'll be quieter than the Flowmaster.

    The Flowmaster race exhaust is a muffler only, no resonator. Way quieter than a Springfield but still louder than the Fuji. The Borla XR1 is my favorite race (no cat) exhaust for the Miata. Racing Beat my favorite for the street or dual duty/HPDE cars since it's prettier than the Borla and bolts up to the cat.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  15. #375
    Señor Member b3d3g1's Avatar
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    I want to learn how to effectively use my data system and I think a short 15 to 20 minute run through on the main points to search out would be very helpful to a lot of us. Maybe we can get a more central location to share our data too. Most of us that have data are either RacePak or AIM I think.
    -Anthony
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  16. #376
    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    We're also implementing our coaching program over the next few races. This was always part of the SuperMiata concept. To both brush up veteran club racers looking for those last few tenths and bring the newbs up to speed quickly.
    Besides the standard bench racing and video analysis we do at the 949 Racing compound every race weekend, we're also adding live on track coaching via radio. All of the front runners have onboard radios and our race team has spare handsets. We will put together a list of part, suppliers and instructions to add a headset, PTT (push to talk button) and mic to your helmet and car. We loan you a radio for one session, follow behind and also lead for a few laps. It's the best way to see what you are doing and get a feel for the correct line/entry speeds and so forth. It's free, just ask myself, William or Sonny and we'll get you set up. Sonny should have the shopping list put together soon.As a bonus for those of you that do some instruction yourself, the headset can be converted to work with a wireless chatterbox intercom system.
    For Miatas only, I take it? What if I rent one from you
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    I want to learn how to effectively use my data system and I think a short 15 to 20 minute run through on the main points to search out would be very helpful to a lot of us. Maybe we can get a more central location to share our data too. Most of us that have data are either RacePak or AIM I think.
    I could probably wrangle a tech from Racepak to come to the track for us and do a mini seminar. Andrew and William are better at interpreting driver data than I am. John and I mainly use it for diagnostics and monitoring.


    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    For Miatas only, I take it? What if I rent one from you
    I don't rent Miatas but several here do. Join the FB group and introduce yourself so the rental owners can get in touch with details. You have to get an SV comp license and enter a SuperMiata race to take advantage of the coaching program.

    SuperMiata facebook group
    Last edited by emilio700; 01-30-2014 at 12:12 PM.
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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  18. #378
    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    949 doesn't rent anymore? Ah man. OK, I've resisted facebook for so long. I suppose I have no choice but to make one now.
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  19. #379
    Senior Member albertg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Also, as Eric mentioned there is a front of the pack, mid pack and back markers just as there is in any racing. The front guys are as good as the very best in Spec Miata. So if you and your car are good enough for a podium at an SCCA major or national, then you can probably podium in SPM too. If you're midpack in Spec Miata, don't expect to show up to an SPM race with a half prepared car and waltz onto a podium driving with one hand.
    I will be a backmarker in both classes, with apsirations to move up.

    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Edit for Albertg: It costs a fraction to build a front running SPM compared to a Spec Miata. That's the whole point. You're only allowed 140whp with a cap on torque and power area. So 90% of the sneaky and expensive stuff that's required in SM is instantly irrelevant. Cryo your diff for 1whp? be my guest. I'll still match your car on every straight with my POS junkyard engine running $4 pump gas. Pull the restrictor on your '99? Bring it, our 94's running $3.25/gallon E85 in junkyard engines will still smoke it. Point is, it's easy to either run up front in SPM with an SM without touching the car, it'll just cost you Hoosier money. OTOH, you can save money on Hoosiers and spend say, $3k turning it into a faster car that runs up front in SPM and requires about 80% lower tire budget. Did I mention pump gas and almost double the track time per dollar?
    Emilio, I hear what you are saying. It is what makes me want to build to SPM. Unfortunately, when I made the decision to start racing last year I blindly bought a 1.6 miata that had been in the process of being converted to spec. I thought I could save a little money, learn the car, etc. However, I didn't do my research. Fast forward some months and it turns out I could've bought a more competitive race ready car with spares for less. At the moment I am bleeding money. If I could do it all over, I'd probably have built an SPM. But as of now, I am already invested, and super school is around the corner (and obtaining an scca license has sort've turned into a bucket list item), so I'm not quite ready to cut my losses...yet.

    In the end, maybe I'll get tired of being a backmarker with a non competitive car in SM. Then I'd either sell the car or drop in a 1.8 and definitely join you guys. I was planning to come out to few events and do some fun runs, but then thought better about getting in the way of those who are actually racing for points, etc.
    1990 S2 SuperMiata

  20. #380
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by albertg View Post
    .. But as of now, I am already invested, and super school is around the corner (and obtaining an scca license has sort've turned into a bucket list item)..
    Alfa school is cheaper and SCCA may accept it.
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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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