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Thread: SoCal SuperMiata thread

  1. #341
    Senior Member comradefks's Avatar
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    I'd like to fun run for now because of my motor. Then at some point this year, swap in a legal motor. Think I'm legal safety wise other than a proper kill switch that I need to get put in.

  2. #342
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comradefks View Post
    I'd like to fun run for now because of my motor.
    how much power are you making ? can't be that difficult to detune
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
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  3. #343
    Senior Member comradefks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    how much power are you making ? can't be that difficult to detune
    You're right, probably not that difficult to detune. Assuming my biggest issue with detuning will be the area under the curve part rather than peak power. Motor makes pretty flat torque from low down. Guess I'll looking into that at some point soon. Need to talk with Church and get the car weighed again.

    Biggest benefit I see from going with a stock motor is reliability and fuel economy. Would be great to spend a lot less on gas each time out and not breakdown in random ways.

  4. #344
    Senior Member comradefks's Avatar
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    Thinking about it more though, my car was tuned on a Dynopack so the numbers would be lower on a Dynojet. I should just get it on a Dynojet and see how far off I really am.

    Any suggestions for a couple quick dyno pulls in the Santa Fe Springs, CA area? The closer the better, need to tow the car there.

  5. #345
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comradefks View Post
    Thinking about it more though, my car was tuned on a Dynopack so the numbers would be lower on a Dynojet. I should just get it on a Dynojet and see how far off I really am.

    Any suggestions for a couple quick dyno pulls in the Santa Fe Springs, CA area? The closer the better, need to tow the car there.
    Church reads roughly 8% higher than a Dynojet. Do the math on your dyno plot, if it's close, come run with us. Being your first race, you might not be at the front event with a bit too much power. Bring your laptop and tuning software. I can tweak
    it there.

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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  6. #346
    Senior Member comradefks's Avatar
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    Sounds like a plan. Took a look at my dyno sheet from about 18 months ago, assuming the car still makes the same power and came up with the following adjusted numbers.

    5000 - 142
    5500 - 153
    6000 - 153
    6500 - 154
    7000 - 147

    Total under the curve = 749
    Max torque is at 4000 & 4500 = 166
    120 hp max below 4500, mine is 129

    Got Tunerstudio installed on my tablet so that should make doing changes at the track easier, my old laptop was a POS.

    Also another thought would be to try and take the overlay crank pulley I have off, that would lower the boost a couple PSI. Don't know if that's preferred to detuning in the current setup.

    How close are you guys getting to minimum comp weight in the spec built SPM cars? I'm sure I will be significantly higher than the 1.6 comp weight.

  7. #347
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comradefks View Post
    Sounds like a plan. Took a look at my dyno sheet from about 18 months ago, assuming the car still makes the same power and came up with the following adjusted numbers.

    5000 - 142
    5500 - 153
    6000 - 153
    6500 - 154
    7000 - 147

    Total under the curve = 749
    Max torque is at 4000 & 4500 = 166
    120 hp max below 4500, mine is 129

    Got Tunerstudio installed on my tablet so that should make doing changes at the track easier, my old laptop was a POS.

    Also another thought would be to try and take the overlay crank pulley I have off, that would lower the boost a couple PSI. Don't know if that's preferred to detuning in the current setup.

    How close are you guys getting to minimum comp weight in the spec built SPM cars? I'm sure I will be significantly higher than the 1.6 comp weight.
    We're all at 2300# min weight. You need to run less boost for sure. What about just ditching the blower? It'll be more reliable anyway.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  8. #348
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    I spent the morning and part of the afternoon swapping transmissions and and diffs - Torsen in, OS Giken out. It's going to be close but I'll be at BRP with or w/out aero.

    Thanks again for the help Brett.
    99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
    '91 Mariner Blue Miata project AKA Napoleon

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    I spent the morning and part of the afternoon swapping transmissions and and diffs - Torsen in, OS Giken out. It's going to be close but I'll be at BRP with or w/out aero.

    Thanks again for the help Brett.
    I don't pretend to understand the Super Miata rules, but aren't you making the car worse by replacing the OS Giken with the Torsen? What's so Super about an inferior LSD?
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  10. #350
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    I don't pretend to understand the Super Miata rules, but aren't you making the car worse by replacing the OS Giken with the Torsen? What's so Super about an inferior LSD?
    Because Giken is expensive and an advantage. Thus the ban
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
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  11. #351
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    What's so Super about an inferior LSD?
    Price of admission. Installed cost of an OS Giken on a Miata is ~$2k. Lots of Miatas came with Torsens and Torsens seem to be pretty durable. I paid $750 for a 4.30 Torsen shipped. It was pretty easy to install.

    A big part of this race series is keeping costs down. To me that's pretty Super.
    Last edited by Red_5; 01-12-2014 at 03:30 AM.
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  12. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    A big part of this race series is keeping costs down. To me that's pretty Super.
    OK, so what could you build a competitive Super Miata for, assuming the driver is not mechanically inclined and/or doesn't have the time to build it himself, and hires a competent race car mechanic to build it, at let's say a reasonable labor rate of $75-/hour? Include donor car, all parts and safety equipment, labor, and outsourcing the cage building to someone like Blackbird.
    Last edited by Richard EVO; 01-12-2014 at 12:45 PM.
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  13. #353
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    OK, so what could you build a competitive Super Miata for, assuming the driver is not mechanically inclined and/or doesn't have the time to build it himself, and hires a competent race car mechanic to build it, at let's say a reasonable labor rate of $75-/hour? Include donor car, all parts and safety equipment, labor, and outsourcing the cage building to someone like Blackbird.
    I really don't know, maybe Emilio, Andrew or Moti could say. I just needed to put a less expensive diff and add cheapish aero parts to change my car from PTE to SPM. I bought Moti's rear spoiler for $300 or so. I wish I had the money to have him do my front air dam too but I had to update several pieces of safety gear.

    I think William has a car that he's selling, maybe you should buy it.

    Tires are a big part of keeping this semi-affordable. The RC-1s are relatively inexpensive and should last for several weekends.
    99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
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  14. #354
    Senior Member comradefks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    We're all at 2300# min weight. You need to run less boost for sure. What about just ditching the blower? It'll be more reliable anyway.
    My hope was to keep the hardware on the motor the same in the short term. Saves me the time/money/hassle for now and if I want to switch the maps for non-SPM events I can have the fun power.

    Think I can detune the motor to the point of being legal in a safe manor? What are the typical ways to accomplish this through tuning? Or maybe a restrictor plate/tube is the way to go? Thanks.
    Last edited by comradefks; 01-12-2014 at 06:45 PM.

  15. #355
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comradefks View Post
    My hope was to keep the hardware on the motor the same in the short term. Saves me the time/money/hassle for now and if I want to switch the maps for non-SPM events I can have the fun power.

    Think I can detune the motor to the point of being legal in a safe manor? What are the typical ways to accomplish this through tuning? Or maybe a restrictor plate/tube is the way to go? Thanks.
    restrictor plate is the easiest way to go.
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
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  16. #356
    Senior Member granth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    OK, so what could you build a competitive Super Miata for, assuming the driver is not mechanically inclined and/or doesn't have the time to build it himself, and hires a competent race car mechanic to build it
    Ask Alex, Second Chance he knows what to do and how to build a good car for SuperMiata. Also very nice to work with, he will treat you right!

  17. #357
    Senior Member comradefks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam:112003
    Quote Originally Posted by comradefks View Post
    My hope was to keep the hardware on the motor the same in the short term. Saves me the time/money/hassle for now and if I want to switch the maps for non-SPM events I can have the fun power.

    Think I can detune the motor to the point of being legal in a safe manor? What are the typical ways to accomplish this through tuning? Or maybe a restrictor plate/tube is the way to go? Thanks.
    restrictor plate is the easiest way to go.
    Does that require changes to the tune? Or just put the plate in and go? Have no experience with using restrictor plates.

  18. #358
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    OK, so what could you build a competitive Super Miata for, assuming the driver is not mechanically inclined and/or doesn't have the time to build it himself, and hires a competent race car mechanic to build it, at let's say a reasonable labor rate of $75-/hour? Include donor car, all parts and safety equipment, labor, and outsourcing the cage building to someone like Blackbird.
    $10-14 if you're paying someone else. Knock $3-6K off if you do everything but cage fabrication yourself. That's for a front running car. What isn't listed there are entries and consumables which are lower than any other production car road racing by a large margin. There is no more affordable production car racing on the west coast. Chump costs maybe half as much to build but you need a team ($$$) if you're trying to win. Chump is almost, but not quite, real racing. Widely varying skill and prep levels means it's more like Lemons but with smaller fields and no costumes.
    Last edited by emilio700; 01-13-2014 at 11:33 AM.
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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  19. #359
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comradefks View Post
    Does that require changes to the tune? Or just put the plate in and go? Have no experience with using restrictor plates.
    Both. You need a tuner that can fab or work with restrictors. SPM isn't really set up for non-SPM spec cars. Work to get it closer to SPM performance envelope and you can start in the front wave with SPM's. If not, you start separate from us and just sorta HPDE it on your own. I personally wouldn't have much fun running with us unless the car has the exact same performance potential so one can mix it up.

    I think you would be better served (and save money/hassle) by renting and just leaving your heavier turbo car as is.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  20. #360
    Senior Member comradefks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Both. You need a tuner that can fab or work with restrictors. SPM isn't really set up for non-SPM spec cars. Work to get it closer to SPM performance envelope and you can start in the front wave with SPM's. If not, you start separate from us and just sorta HPDE it on your own. I personally wouldn't have much fun running with us unless the car has the exact same performance potential so one can mix it up.
    I agree but also understand my level of skill which I think is at least a few steps behind all of the NASA regulars. I think even with the extra power, I wouldn't stay with you guys on track. I will just keep tweaking that car and running for fun to see where I'm at when the time comes. This year will most likely be a hybrid of HPDE and SPM.

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